Reputation: 16
Q&A:
0
0
0
53
37
0
Classifieds:
0
0
|
Bi-polar disorder (used to be called "manic-depressive")
is something most everybody has to a certain extent.
Often people go through moods.
The "manic" part of the cycle may lead to great achievements. Google "mozart" and exact phrase
"manic depressive" and you will see research
indicating Mozart had a bi-polar disorder.
Also the movie portrayed this well.
I think cannabis tends to moderate the mood swings,
so would be useful for treating this. This should
be combined with a healthy lifestyle, good diet,
walking, etc. Naturopathic doctors might be
qualified in this field, I hope they will be
allowed to recommend cannabis.
|
Naturopathic doctor = quack
|
|
Naturopathic doctors, as well as physician assistants, osteopathic physician assistants, and advanced registered nurse practitioners, were added to the list of health care professionals who can authorize the medical use of cannabis under Washington state law by the passage of SB 5798 this legislative session. The law goes into effect June 10. (Previously, only MDs and ODs could authorize.) However, bipolar disorder is not one of the qualifying conditions under the law. A prior attempt to add it through petition to the Medical Quality Assurance Commission failed.
|
|
Dangerous answer, this one. While you may or may not agree with psychiatry and the use of prescription meds, recommending pot as a treatment for bipolar is a bit irresponsible, don't you think?
Everyone having "moods" is not the same as someone having a severe bi-polar episode. I mean, come on Kevin, you are a hydroponics expert, which is pretty fucking cool if you ask me, but I wouldn't ask you for medical advice.
Let's stick with facts, and let's not lose sight of the goal, which is legalizing marijuana. Anecdotal evidence like this can come around to bite you in the ass.
|
|
|
To my knowledge, nobody in this panel is a medical expert (which is why I recommended a naturopathic doctor) yet a medical question was asked.
As it happens, I have a BA degree in psychology from Concordia College, and have studied this issue. I gave my opinion, that I think pot can moderate mood swings. Obviously, this is what happens in the normal course of events.
THC can relieve depressive phases through its euphoriant action, while the tranquilizing effects of CBD can alleviate manic phases:
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v39n4/6164.pdf
We need to stop stigmatizing those with "mental health" (code for socially disapproved) issues.
Sometimes the people who write these studies get freaked out by someone's reaction to pot and call it "psychotic". I believe with the Stoics that we should try to live a moderate life in accord with human nature.
Dr. Szasz is of the opinion that much psychiatric diagnosis is mere prejudice or superstition. I wouldn't go that far but I think we should try to avoid being judgmental as long as someone is productive and does not cause great harm.
|
|
|
I agree that cannabis COULD be beneficial for this and a host of other conditions. But, you said, "I think cannabis tends to moderate the mood swings, so WOULD be useful for treating this." (CAPS mine)
Perhaps I'm being overly picky about your language, but you've never met this person, you don't know her history, and it COULD be very harmful. The study you cited didn't mention any possible side effects with her meds, Wellbutrin and valproic acid, which is what the question is about. Do you know what her dosage is? Do you know what the risks are?
And, no, your BA in psychology does not exactly overwhelm me with confidence in your opinion.
|
|
|
I googled "Wellbutrin" and "valproic acid". They are very potent chemical anti-depressants, with possible dangerous side effects. Though I didn't see anything about interactions with pot. If there were a conflict, I would tend to drop the chemicals and stay with the herb. Lifestyle and diet are also important.
Often medical doctors recommend highly potent, dangerous chemicals that suppress symptoms but don't address the underlying cause. Some have even applied electric shocks to the brain,
which causes permanent damage. So I don't think we should automatically respect what allopathic doctors have to offer. Which is why I recommended a naturopathic doctor (who would also be aware of the possible interactions).
|
|
|
Yes, YOU would drop the chemicals and stick with the herb. Self-medicating works very well for me too, and I would do the same. But, someone else, who possibly has a serious mental illness, might not be able to do that.
And, yes medical doctors have done all sorts of crazy things over the years -- over-medicating, electric shocks, leech treatments, therapeutic bleeding to remove humors, etc ... But, isn't it possible that doctors occasionally (or, even, usually) try to prescribe the right combination of chemicals to enable an otherwise unstable person to lead a normal and functional life? And, pot, for all of its beneficial properties, might not be the right chemical for every disorder or for every patient?
Kevin, really, all I'm asking of you is this -- Will you please provide more detailed answers on topics that you are an EXPERT in? Maybe a longer answer on the cooking with cannabis question? Indica vs sativa = fascinating! Getting rid of spider mites = helpful! Medical advice? Please stop.
|
|
|
Studies have shown that patients who uncritically accept whatever the doctor says, tend to live less long. So one doesn't have to be an expert to question a medical expert. We all have bodies and some first-hand knowledge of the topic. We should consult doctors, but choose them well, and take their advice with a grain of salt.
I'm not an expert on the psychoactive differences between sativa vs. indica,
which is why I gave a thumbnail and a referral to the Starks book. But if you were to ask me a new question about the two, such as appropriate nutrient levels and different growing techniques for each, I would be glad to expound.
I just got more information on spider mite eradication. Open a new thread by asking me a new question, and I will provide more free information.
But as long as we are sitting around the cracker barrel, I can't guarantee I won't slip in a remark or two about Ron Paul or something else...
|
|
|
I agree that we often know our bodies better than the doctor does, and good two-way communication is important for good health. I like my physician very much, and the main reason for this is that he takes a lot of time during each visit and listens to what I have to say. He also tends to think out loud, and if he's uncertain about something, he's honest about it.
I also know first-hand that some people with mental problems go completely bonkers when they are off their meds, and that smoking pot doesn't necessarily help to stabilize them.
Feel free to rant about Ron Paul or Swedish Nationalists all you want. That opens you up to some ridicule, but doesn't put anyone else at risk.
|
|
The movie about Mozart was...a MOVIE. And one that's been shown to be erroneous on many levels. On account it's a fictional recreation of things that happened to make a good MOVIE.
I've done a shit-ton of research about my degenerative joint disorder (likewise my family's history of clinical depression and manic-depression), but I certainly do not expect that a couple of hours on the internet replace years of medical school.
I like to think I'm pretty in-tune with my body's needs, but there's some shit I'd rather trust to a pro.
|
|
|
But Karla, he Googled Wellbutrin and has a BA in psychology. Clearly, Kevin is now qualified to make diagnoses.
|
|
|
I was asked if I thought pot would help with bi-polar. I gave my opinion while at the same time recommended she consult a doctor.
I didn't diagnose because the questioner already had a diagnosis of bi-polar. I'm aware that there is always a remote possibility of drug interaction with pot, which is one reason I recommended consulting a doctor.
Everybody here has political opinions, on pot and other issues such as government health care. Yet how many are qualified experts? How many have PhDs in economics? Political Science? Health Care Management? Such opinions affect real lives, even more than my opinion on medical uses of pot.
Concerning the Amadeus movie, I realize this is a movie, which is why I googled (and recommended people google) for information about Mozart's condition. I already knew of other examples, but thought to use this example so average people could relate. My point in bringing this up, was that the "manic" phase can result in great achievement. So "bi-polar" is not all bad.
The internet empowers the average person,
allowing great access to information. We should still consult experts, but not rely upon them as the only source of information.
The average MD has virtually no training in psychology, naturopathy, vitamins or nutrition. A psychiatrist has an MD plus specialized training in psychology; but this training tends to favor harsh methods such as strong chemicals (or even electroshock, now out of favor). So if a psychiatrist did know about the medical uses of pot, probably this would be a result of his own independent research. Relying upon a psychiatrist as the sole source of information can be dangerous to health. For example, many of the standard prescribed anti-psychotic chemicals can cause tardive dyskinesia:
http://tinyurl.com/3x5th37
I stand by my comments. Perhaps some people don't agree with my opinion, and would prefer people consult doctors. But I recommended that also. I understand from Allison's comments that bi-polar does not qualify under Washington's new medical marijuana law. That does not mean, pot cannot help for this disorder. People need to take responsibility for their own health, and become educated from a variety of sources.
|
|
|
"Such opinions affect real lives, even more than my opinion on medical uses of pot."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and expressing said opinion is the purpose of community forums like this. It's helpful to exchange ideas with others, but what we say here is generally inconsequential in terms of, for example, enacting actual health care legislation. That, it should be noted, is the job of legislators.
What you did was advise someone who currently takes meds for a potentially serious condition to take your drug of choice instead. And yes, one side of your mouth said to seek the advice of a naturopath, but the other side said to take whatever doctors say with a grain of salt.
Please also keep in mind that you are sitting on an "expert panel". In my opinion, this means your advice, for better or worse, carries a bit more weight than some random schmo. You have our attention, so please use it wisely and show some responsibility.
|
|
|
Wow, this is quite the flame war. Hurray for the internet!
|
|
|
And now you get an email with every new salvo! Bwaa haa ha ha!!!!
|
|
|
You have not established there is a conflict
between pot and the chemicals prescribed for
bi-polar. If there were such a conflict, a
doctor would know that, and I advised to seek a
doctor.
If the doctor were to claim that the harsh
chemicals were better than pot, and the two were
not compatible, I wouldn't necessarily follow
the doctor. You can find many different opinions
among doctors and different kinds of doctors.
But this is a hypothetical, and addresses a
different question than the one posed.
Two questions were asked: is pot good for
bi-polar and is there a conflict with the
chemicals.
I addressed only the first question, and
referred to a doctor for the second.
Everything else I said was in response to your
comments, not the original two questions.
The specific qualifications of the panelists
were listed, and the questioner still valued our
opinions. You are free to disagree, but you
haven't stated your opinion, only that I am not
qualified to give mine. You are intervening
between consenting adults, slaying the dragon to
rescue a damsel in distress.
Experts are no longer the gatekeepers to truth,
and you are certainly not, anymore than priests
are gatekeepers to heaven. Literate people can
read and make decisions for themselves.
The internet is like a super Gutenberg Press,
the average person now has access to more
information than an average university 100 or
even 30 years ago. As a result, the world
benefits from another reformation.
You are looking for some kind of parent or
priest figure, all-knowing and all-wise.
I never claimed or aspired to be that, and I'm
not going to recant because I don't meet your
standards.
Print newspapers are going out of business, now
anyone can be a columnist. That means,
there is a lot more noise, but also a lot more
diversity of opinion. People are not not
children, they need to take responsibility for
their own health, and seek out information from
a variety of sources.
Sometimes an amateur can scoop an expert. Do you
think it's OK that many psychiatrists routinely
prescribe harsh chemicals that can cause
permanent neurological damage, such as Tardive
Diskenesia? Better to obey and suffer, eh?
I'm not saying that the specific medications
mentioned will tend to cause these problems.
But readers have a right to know that
psychiatrists aren't always right. Nor am I
saying that psychiatrists are always wrong.
I'm sure some could be found who would recommend
pot, and some will not; people have to decide
for themselves based on what they know from a
variety of sources, and/or have experienced.
|
|
|
"The internet is like a super Gutenberg Press,
the average person now has access to more
information than an average university 100 or
even 30 years ago."
The internet is also like a giant garbage disposal, where the average person can dispense quackery to the masses without any repercussions. And, access to information is not the same thing as comprehension of information, as you have repeatedly illustrated here.
You have your opinion, and no amount of evidence with contrary information will change it. You pick and choose facts that are convenient to your opinion, and ignore the ones that are not. Do you believe in science, Kevin?
|
|
|
I'm a great believer in science. But you haven't given me any scientific evidence. Only the accusations that the internet is a "giant garbage disposal" and that I am oblivious to some unspecified evidence. I suppose you would feel more comfortable if a few politically-correct guardians were stationed at the portals of knowledge.
When books had to be reproduced by hand, fewer books were published and fewer people read them.
When the printing press became available, many more books were published, more accurately and cheaply; and many more people read them.
This allowed the works of dissenters like Luther to be published. At the time, he was considered a crank. In many ways, he was. But he started a revolution in thinking that contributed to a re-birth of science and widespread learning.
The internet tends to break down the large publications and networks. Society is splintering into specialized groups. People tend to read what reinforces their pre-existing beliefs. Some people here are not used to my ideas, they freak out, and lump me together with anybody they don't like.
Dan Rather was fired because internet bloggers fact-checked his lies and distortions. He's now on a subscription digital channel reaching a small audience of true believers.
Here is a list of side effects of a specific harsh chemical routinely prescribed by modern-day witch doctors:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/complete-index.shtml\
Valproic acid may cause damage to the liver or pancreas, so people taking it should see their doctors regularly.
Valproic acid may affect young girls and women in unique ways. Sometimes, valproic acid may increase testosterone (a male hormone) levels in teenage girls and lead to a condition called polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS).11,12 PCOS is a disease that can affect fertility and make the menstrual cycle become irregular, but symptoms tend to go away after valproic acid is stopped.13 It also may cause birth defects in women who are pregnant.
Lamotrigine can cause a rare but serious skin rash that needs to be treated in a hospital. In some cases, this rash can cause permanent disability or be life-threatening.
In addition, valproic acid, lamotrigine, carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine and other anticonvulsant medications (listed in the chart at the end of this document) have an FDA warning. The warning states that their use may increase the risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviors. People taking anticonvulsant medications for bipolar or other illnesses should be closely monitored for new or worsening symptoms of depression, suicidal thoughts or behavior, or any unusual changes in mood or behavior. People taking these medications should not make any changes without talking to their health care professional.
|
|
|
I haven't given any scientific evidence because I am not dispensing any advice. You are. Badly.
And yes, all of the medications you mentioned have possible side effects for some people. But, do you have any clue what those medications are used for? (hint: it's not the possible side effects) Believe me, I've known more than a few pot smokers with mental issues, bi-polar included, and most of them needed different meds than pot to stabilize. I know that's hard for you to understand.
I'm confident that if you came across research that showed a potentially negative side effect of weed, you would hyper-focus on some perceived flaw in the study and choose to ignore it, just as you have hyper-focused on the possible negative side effects of the other drugs while ignoring their benefits.
|
|
|
My answer to the woman didn't say to stop taking chemical meds. I gave my opinion that pot can help, and advised she check with a doctor (in case of adverse interaction).
You are dispensing advice. In effect, you are advising people to rely upon the prescribing doctor, and disregard all other sources of information. That nobody else has a right to say their opinion, no matter how much they have experienced or studied independently. You advise people to not listen to my advice, but offer no evidence to refute it. How do you know that MDs are the only ones qualified to have good opinions on this matter? How are you qualified to make that judgment?
The lady knew that none of the panelists are medical doctors. Yet she still valued our opinion. You disagree with her evaluation.
That's fine--for you. Nobody is coercing you to seek advice from non-MDs. Before you intervene in other peoples' interactions, why not meditate on your own affairs? Or at least contribute something of practical value to the conversation.
You don't know how I would react to research indicating negative side effects of weed. Why not do so, and know, instead of guessing? I might acknowledge negative side effects, but maintain they are minor relative to the benefits.
To say that people "need" to stabilize (with harsh chemicals) presumes a moral judgment. Who are you to say that people should take great risk, just to totally suppress their bi-polarism?
The world would be much worse off, without the contributions achieved in the manic phase.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease,
and people need to hear that. Pot may not totally dispel bi-polarism, but certainly can moderate it, and at much lower risk than the chemicals.
I've never heard of pot creating side effects like the ones listed for valproic acid. If there were such research, likely I would have heard of it by now (at the age of 60). Logic requires that you provide such evidence to support your charge that I gave bad advice. If you were to say that my advice "might" be bad, that would say nothing, since I have proven that "expert" advice has been bad in the past while you have proven nothing. Advice from anybody (except your mythical god-figure) "might" be bad.
|
Enter your comment or ask a new question
New comments are not being accepted at this time.
|
Arts & Music
Books & Writing
Cars, Bikes & Transit
Celebrations & Gatherings
Entertainment & Film
Family & Kids
Finance/Insure/Legal
Food & Drink
Gardening
Government Services
Health & Fitness
House & Home
Jobs & Education
News & Politics
Pets
Questionland FAQs
Science & Technology
Sex & Relationships
Sports & Recreation
Style & Beauty
Trips & Travel
Whatever
cdc
normstamper
Pete Holmes
Philip Dawdy
LMNOP
Fnarf
RandiBeever
Rev.Enant
Jessica Baxter
NGC1275
James
A-20
Walter Mellon
hillpagan
Phil M
automg
