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How do I explain to my friend that "protecting" women is sexist? Warning: bizarre story ahead

(Names are changed to protect the innocent.) My friend Sam asked me for advice for "protecting" Serena. Serena's previous boyfriend left campus and the two broke up. Now Sam's best friend and suite-mate Ryan is hitting on her. Ryan denies everything, claiming that he "doesn't do relationships." (Lie.) This upsets Sam because he knows that Ryan is not cut out for stable long-term relationships. It's only a matter of time before Serena gets hurt.

To further complicate matters, Sam doesn't really acknowledge that he has romantic feelings for Serena. He doesn't deny that he places people like me (his plutonic female friend) and people like Serena (his creepy obsession) in different categories, but he won't use words like "crush" and "attraction" to describe the situation. He claims those things don't apply because he is asexual, and he thinks of Serena as a sister. However, Sam clearly has some kind of emotionally incestuous relationship with his actual sister. I am not joking.

A while ago Sam tried to explain his feelings to Serena. She started crying. So a relationship between those two is out of the question.

At first I thought the issue was jealousy, but Sam had no problem with Serena's previous boyfriend. He wants to protect her from the inevitable failure of this new relationship, and he's started to hate his former best friend because of it.

One problem I have here is that nobody seems to be taking Serena's feelings into account. Sam talks about how Serena's ex-boyfriend did a good job of protecting her, and about how he wanted Sam to continue protecting her, and about how Ryan isn't capable of protecting her. What about Serena's thoughts and feelings? Isn't she free to choose who she dates, isn't she free to get hurt by her own mistakes?

I will admit that Serena is kind of flakey, and eager to please. She doesn't seem capable of saying bad things about people. Although she is capable of telling Sam to leave when he creeps her out by sitting too close to her. She has a sweet, innocent, child-like demeanor, and I can see why people would have an instinct to "protect" her. However, she's not an idiot and can make her own choices. I don't like how Sam is acting like Serena is an object whose ownership is being transferred between various men. There seems to be some kind of sexism going on with this whole protection thing.

I asked Sam why he thinks girls get creeped out when he acts too helpful, and he said it must be because they think he wants sex. I told him that is not the case. It's because he is treating girls like they are not human beings. When a guy puts a girl on a pedestal and starts acting overly nice it is kind of dehumanizing. That's why it is creepy. The concept is really difficult to explain to someone like Sam though. It's not that he isn't intelligent, it's just that he is strange and it's tough to explain normal concepts to strange people. When he was telling me about the situation he even used an analogy where he compared Serena to $300, saying, "if I let you borrow $300 and you spent it all, you would have betrayed me." It's obvious to me why that is dehumanizing, but I don't know how to explain that to someone who has trouble seeing it. When I tried to explain this to him he said he would ask Serena how she feels about the situation. It seems so odd that he devotes all of this time obsessing over Serena and he never bothered asking her about it until I suggested it.

Sam has OCD, and part of me thinks this might be the same kind of unhealthy obsession that cleaning is for him. He never bothered to get his OCD officially diagnosed because he thinks it isn't enough of a problem, although he admits that he wishes he wasn't obsessed with Serena and Ryan's relationship.

This story most likely makes Sam sound like some kind of idiot and/or wacko, but that is not the case. We're friends for a reason. I want to help but I am overwhelmed by the amount of strangeness.

Advice please?

narftwenty asked in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report

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8 Answers

  • Image00666_small
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    My advice to you: Mind your own fucking business, don't let drama intrude upon your life, and learn how to communicate effectively in about 1/4 of the space you've used here.

    kitschnsync answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
    5 comments by narftwenty, bikechef, and katiedid…
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  • Hair_hipstamatic_small
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    e.strange

    I'm just going to address one tiny part of your long and complicated story. It has been my experience that you can't really tell people who to date. The best tactic for anyone who seriously disapproves of a friend's choice in romantic partner is to tell them once, in simple and non-judgmental terms, why they're not sold on their friend's new BF/GF, and then drop it. For example, Sam could say to Serena, "Hey, I'm only going to bring this up once because I know your decision to date Ryan is not really my business, but I'm concerned about you. I think Ryan may be looking for a different kind of relationship that what you're looking for. Anyway, I know you're the only one who can truly know what's best for you and I promise I won't bring this topic up again unless you ask me to. I hope things work out for you, but either way, know that I'm your friend."

    The only time I'd advise against going any farther in expressing disapproval of a friend's significant other is if the relationship has become truly harmful to your friend - like if it's physically abusive. But when you get involved in that way you have to know going in that it could backfire - you could lose your friend.

    Similarly, I think your best bet in this situation is to let Sam know that you feel that him getting involved in Serena's romantic life is not going to help him or Serena, and then bow out. Don't get yourself all tangled up in this drama.

    e.strange answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
    1 comment by narftwenty…
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  • Cateyes_small
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    Kitschnsyc is dead on: mind your own beeswax.

    Don't you have better things to do than to play shrink to your friends? It's not your problem, and, frankly, since you're not a certified therapist, it's not your job (even as a friend) to try to coach/counsel your friends through their emotional weirdnesses. Just butt out.

    MyrnaMinkoff answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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  • 27420_39203552_2621_n_small
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    Being helpful isn't dehumanizing. Or sexist. Most of these situations happen because Person A simply wants to be around Person B. It doesn't come off as necessarily creepy, but more milquetoast-y and doormat-y, which isn't appealing to most people.

    Caitlin Tebbs answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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  • Lookalikes_small
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    Other people's drama is their drama, not yours. Don't get sucked into it, and your life will be much calmer and happier.

    Geni answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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  • Kermitsex_small
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    freikja

    While l understand that we all want to protect our friends from pain or harm, there are a couple of things that come up here:

    (a) You are trying to protect Friend A from Friend B. l just want to point out the oddity there so you're aware of it, because you're defending Friend B all over the place, but he's still exhibiting some worrisome behavior and utterly conflicting and confusing attitudes. My instincts tell me there's something MUCH deeper going on than a misguided sense of chivalry and outright chauvinism. Whatever he's got going on over Serena, it doesn't sound healthy. However, she IS capable of making her own decisions, and therefore, not much you can or should do about it. Which brings me to my next point.

    (b) Sometimes we have to let our friends make their own decisions, even if our foresight tells us it could be a faulty one. We have all at some point or another given our friends unsolicited advice with the best of intentions, and received a less-than-enthusiastic response; hell, l did it recently with a friend who chose to reunite with his ex. We all do it, and some percentage of the time, we're right. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to share it. l suspect that at some point, Friend B will overstep his bounds with Friend A, she will let him know how she feels about it, and it will resolve itself without your involvement.

    freikja answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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  • Basicdnd_small
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    I'd stop hanging out with Sam entirely. Why burden yourself with an emotionally crippled creep for a friend? Someday he might grow up, but probably not. There's nothing you can do to help him.

    dwight moody answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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  • Sacri_ordines_by_charism_small
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    Cleaning is unhealthy?

    BTW, I pretty much tuned out about when you mentioned 'Serena' more than once.

    Oh, by the way, the Answer is "protecting a friend, or a crush, female or male, is NOT sexism".

    If no one takes Serena's feelings into account, that's Serena's gordian knot to worry: she should surround her self with more mature people, end story. I'm looking at more than Sam, here.

    The story doesn't make Sam sound like an idiot nor wacko, it actually "sounds like" a plotline from a certain vampire book/film series...

    Rev.Enant answered in Sex & Relationships about 1 year ago | Report
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