Honestly, I am 60-40 in favour of just walking away. But I've been researching NPD obsessively, and the clinical description is a *perfect match*. I'm in no position to make a diagnosis, but I do think knowledge is power.

Then again, she's not rational when it comes to her own motives.

Your second paragraph is starting to make a lot of sense to me. If I'm going to say anything at all to her, this might be the way to go.

capicola, a quick update: this advice was golden. Walking away didn't work (she wouldn't let me) but the restraint and the "I" messages did. I'm so glad to have learned this. Thank you!

Wait, wait -- I'm not "diagnosing" her. I'm not a doctor. But I'm telling you, I've known her and her family for 15 years, and we've been close friends for two years, and the clinical descriptions of symptoms is striking. Others have noticed it, too.

I also think it's weird that you've diagnosed her yourself without even knowing her.

Funny, it's not uncommon for people to be disbelieved when they suggest someone they're involved with has NPD. So I guess I know how that feels now. She exhibits every symptom, and I've been the target of it. I know what I know, and that's all I can say.

The reason psych 101 students are known for diagnosing their friends and family with personality disorders is because they're like a horoscope or palm reading - they're so vague and common that everyone knows at least someone that matches the stated criteria. For example, look up histrionic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder and see if your friend matches the criteria for those. She probably will, almost by definition. There's a pretty broad consensus in the psych community that Narcissistic Personality Disorder isn't a real "thing" and will almost certainly be removed from the next DSM. It's like diagnosing a woman with "hysteria."

I wasn't diagnosing your friend, just giving some examples of other more common (and usually temporary and treatable) conditions that can cause every behavior associated with NPD.

If you just don't want to deal with her regardless of whatever conditions she may have, that's fine. It's completely reasonable to stop being friends with someone because you can't stand them. If you care enough to try to help her, you can tell her specifically what she is doing that you don't like. Telling her she has an untreatable condition and then saying goodbye isn't helpful.

I am not a psych 101 student, and I don't go around diagnosing my family and friends. You are making huge assumptions about me, my friend, and this situation. Her condition is not "temporary". I've known her for 15 years, and I know what she was like long before that, because I know her family and her stories. She is a writer. I know a lot about her. She has always been like this.

This condition is real. Her husband has left her over it. She cannot sustain a relationship because of it.

And the removal of NPD from the DSM-V has been very controversial, with clinicians (as opposed to researchers) saying it is a terrible, impractical idea.

Here's what I can tell you. Reading the clinical description of NPD was liberating. All that confusion, those vague feelings of inferiority, the exhaustion of always being "on call" for her and then suddenly being ignored when I set boundaries, her exaggerations, her lies, her thefts of my ideas, her constant flattery and never-ending neediness... it was all mapped out. It had nothing to do with me or what kind of friend I was. And it wasn't anything as simple as depression or anxiety (which I am very familiar with). It was a whole constellation of behaviours and the resulting predictable scenarios, and it explained her perfectly. Without that description, I would still be knocking myself out on the hamster wheel, trying to help her manage her latest crisis. Instead, I can see where it's all going. She either hits bottom and starts telling her analyst the truth, or she hits bottom and stays there. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to share what I know with her, to lead that horse to water and let it decide to drink or not.

Look, how would you react if someone told you you had a disorder and that's why you couldn't be their friend? It's a douchebag move even if it's true. And "disorders"? Not diseases. Just a way of describing a collection of symptoms, meaningless on it's own. I was diagnosed with probably 12 different ones within my years of therapy, all not indicative of anything other than a vague synopsis of my personality traits/symptoms at the time. It depended on the doctor and whatever the fad was that year, and usually you got a handful at a time. It's meaningless in terms of actual illness, what it is is shorthand to put in the chart so they don't have to write all those separate words about her being a bitch, and primarily a way to get the insurance company to pay for treatment (they need codes to put on the billing statement). It is far more effective to send this message, and far more caring, to deliver the same exact info in the "this is how I feel about some of the things you do and that's why I can't be around you". It's also harder because you will have to be brave enough to approach her as a human being rather than branding her with a label and beating her over the head with it before running away. (And you obviously aren't a psych 101 student or you would have had the "I statement" thing hammered into your head by now.) And I'm sure her shrink is very aware of these issues, even if she isn't telling her analyst "the truth" whatever the hell that means. The shrink talks to crazy people all day. I can guarantee that if successful mental health treatment hinged on the patient's ability to grasp and tell whatever "the truth" might be, it would be the world's greatest exercise in futility. If you are actually worried about her and believe you have something of import in regards to her treatment, write a letter and send it to her shrink!

You are also making all kinds of assumptions, BasementDweller. I am not a "douchebag", and she is not a "bitch". She is hurting because she can't accept her flaws. Your insinuation that I am not "brave enough to approach her as a human being" is really insulting -- what do you think I've been doing for the last 2 years? Why do you think I'm so worn out? Yes, I am "actually worried" about her; yes, I am a caring person -- that's exactly what got me into this mess. But I have no intention of beating her over the head with anything. I am heartbroken knowing that she is alone in her pain, and that the more I try to help her the more she will hurt me, because she doesn't know how to love people. Telling her "this is how I feel" DOESN'T HELP. She will only tell me there is something wrong with me. I thought that as a last resort, providing her with information from an external source might help, but it's pretty clear that it won't. I give up.

Your response is so defensive and lacking in compassion and understanding that all I can surmise is that it's all about you and your own feelings, and has nothing to offer me in terms of an objective appraisal of the situation. I'm sure it felt good for you to write it down, but I've already made my decision, so whatever.

Them's the breaks with the internet advice from complete strangers - no one is required to coddle you, no one is operating with all the information, and the internet is clearly populated by "defensive and lacking in compassion" monsters like me. And oh, I forgot completely self-absorbed with nothing to offer! So here's some more crap you won't read:

Labeling someone instead of just explaining to them what your actual issues are is indeed a cop-out, as I'm sure you can agree. I guarantee you wouldn't have gotten past the "you have a mental disorder" part of that conversation. No one agreed with your original plan for a reason.

You haven't been approaching her as a human being for the past two years - she's been a charity case. If you had treated her as an adult all of these issues would have been addressed or the relationship ended long ago.

re: douchebag - reread the sentence. And yes, your friend is being a bitch. That's why you don't like being around her. You yourself haven't described a single positive characteristic of this woman, which is a little odd if your motivation is that you want to help her because she's such a good person.

re : I statements - I only backed up what Capicola said, which you liked.

You seem really defensive yourself. Keep in mind that you wouldn't have been in this relationship for so long if you weren't getting something out of it. Any martyring you've been doing has been because you chose it. And you really should send a letter to her shrink, if you feel her therapy could be enhanced by your insights - if indeed, as you assert, you truly want to be helpful.
It also wouldn't hurt to google "codependent".

Wow, you really want to stick it to me, don't you? First, I am very familiar with codependency and its implications. That's why I am ending this friendship. Second, this wasn't my "plan"; I was trying to make a choice. Third, I don't need coddling -- note the answer I gave the mushroom to -- just basic respect, thanks. Fourth, I didn't describe her positive characteristics because I didn't want to write a 10 page essay, so I figured intelligent people would take my word for it. Fifth, helping someone who asks for support after her husband leaves her IS treating her like a human being, plus we had a lot of good times together, but I'm not going to write a novel about this. Sixth, you don't know shit about dealing with narcissists, so blow it out your ass. And seventh, please, please reply again with more attacks. I can't wait to hear what you say next!

The best thing that ever happened to my familial relationships was when I too read the NPD description. All my life the troubles of my older brother tainted every relationship in my family. Getting an understanding of what makes my brother the way he is gave me permission to forgive him and everyone else. I am a happier person and have reconnected with my mother in a profound way. Now that she is older I am her primary support person. The only way to get there was to change my brother from complete family-wrecking asshole to sufferer of a disorder.

Be happy you can explain your friends personality, forgive her and move on. Oh, and don't argue about mental health on questionland, you will get lots of angry responses.

Kip... thank you. I'm glad to hear your family got through this.

You are right about everything. Especially the part about forgiveness. I'll take your advice.

Oh, Russ, I think sending her a link to this post would cause major drama! But I've thought about sending her a link to the DSM-IV description, and maybe a note saying "call me if you want to talk". Only I suspect she would just dismiss it. If I met with her in person I could at least explain that I'm telling her this because I sincerely care about her. And yet the experts warn that a confrontation might provoke retaliation in the form of "narcissistic rage". I recently witnessed this -- a really decent guy broke up with her in a really decent way, and she's threatening to send a letter to his family detailing their sexual exploits. Ugly.

And yet she can be so reasonable *sometimes*.

*sigh* How do you answer someone who asks "what is wrong with me?" when the answer is "you have a personality disorder"? Her life is going downhill fast.

Your dilemma stems from your desire to be a "true friend" and sadly she appears to be someone that doesn't recognize or prize that in anyone. With the statement about her retaliatory behavior possibilities clarifying what might result, I agree that not delving into it at all is the best course. Be busy when she wants your company and get your distance (and the sanity back in your life). Whether or not she has one personality issue or another (ignoring possible diagnoses) she is not giving back to you the energy and support one ought to expect from a friend. You need to make connections with people that you get proper respect from and that reflect the support you give to them.

Be prepared that you may hear from her in the future if her world gets small and caves in around her. You will have to assess if she is in the throes of just needing someone to feed her or if she is hitting a real crisis and that you may be able to talk to her about her behavior and forward her on to some real help.

The "diagnosis" was just a description, and it helped me more than anyone. That seems to be the hardest thing to get across. It was the key that pulled everything together. Imagine being close to someone who is slowly going mad and has convinced you that she is the only sane one, and when you finally start to gently question her version of reality, this sweet person starts to lash out in all these subtle and devious ways. After two years -- it's hard to describe how painful and confusing it was. The NPD description made sense of everything.

Anyway, you are right, distance is what I need. I need to forget about her for a good long while. Thanks for the advice.