8 Answers

• Reputation: 366 Q&A: 2 0 12 95 14 1 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0 Elle Elle

  6 0 Fascinated by your question. Brave. I may get slammed for my answers, but you're in distress! First, your question, to my mind, prompts many questions back to you. That said: Okay, so you’ve only had sex several times. Unless one of the following apply, a. you’ve been involved in relationships in which you were celibate or, b. women have wanted to have sex with you but only in the context of a relationship and you weren’t/aren’t interested in that; if one of these is true then you need to reframe your question entirely. If neither is true, it seems to me that your problem needs to be seen as one of “why can’t I make some kind of connection with women?” Sex is secondary. It's one possible outcome after making a connection someone you want to be intimate with—whether for one night or “who knows where this will go?” If I were you, the thing I would want is to get direct feedback. Face to face. From people I've interacted with. If you have the balls or are simply unconcerned about posting this question ALONG WITH YOUR PHOTO (I couldn’t do it) then I hope it's not a leap to consider that you are no so shy that you can't ask for feedback from persons who know you. Female friends? Female family members you think would be candid with you and you can handle hearing something hard to hear from them? A woman you've stayed connected with who only wants a platonic relationship? Other candidates? I’d want to know what the "it" is that keeps women at a distance from me. The questions you ask to elicit feedback are going to stem from your specific experiences which only you know. For example, do you sometimes feel a mutual sexual chemistry or connectedness to a person you meet but it doesn’t go anywhere? Or does the “nothing” occur before that point; you approach women for conversation (volunteer gig, etc.) and it’s quite clear they aren’t interested in more than small talk? what am I doing or not doing that creates my isolation, sexually speaking. Actually, I might change my question when asking others for feedback to something more like “why can’t I seem to find women to date”, or something like that. Depending on who it is, asking someone why they think you can't get laid could be part of your problem (uncomfortable and awkward conversation starters). How to ask for feedback? Well that’s a few chapters right there. First, find out if it's possible. "I'd like some very honest feedback about myself; how do you feel about providing some? I've thought a lot about this and I'm ready for it" or something. If they say yes: Ask a specific question, not "what do you think of me" or some variation of that. Ask one question at a time. And this is KEY: No matter how you feel about the answer—no matter what!—say “thank you” when they’re done. Always. Always. If you have a follow-up question ask it. If you don’t, shut up and keep your reactions to their feedback to yourself. Serious. Don’t ask someone to do something like this for you if you’re going to make them pay for it, in any way, afterward. Of course this feedback asking thing will not work with everyone. A lot of people aren’t comfortable giving strong opinions about anything. And it’s common for people to ask for unvarnished truth and then hold it against the responder or have a meltdown (refer to "thank you" above!) -both of which are pretty unpleasant. So if this doesn’t work each time, it’s not about you. Move on. Examples of specificity: “Can you give me words or sentences which describe the kind of first impression I make when I walk into a room?” Or, "If you had a female friend that you thought I would like, would you try to get us to meet, to see if something would happen? If not, what would stop you? Don't hold back. I really appreciate it". Not saying these are great questions, but specific is key. A related idea: I have gone through a number of different leadership development programs over the years. One was really intense; a weeklong residential examination of how people perceive me, versus how I want them to perceive me—or at least my message. There were 25 of us and we were thrown into all sorts of situations, many “stress” situations and then we were guided as to how to give one another feedback. At the end of this week we met one on one with either a therapist of leadership coach to put us back together. Intense and life-changing. So what does that mean for you? I would engage a life coach or relationship coach. There are a lot of them out there and I would someone to work with me on this. I'd want to see you doing some role playing and getting feedback about first impressions, social skills, conversation; someone to help you to boost your confidence, to give you “assignments” in the real world which you bring back to him/her to debrief and hopefully learn from. Maybe videotape simple interactions, like meeting persons without any specific intention, just to make that initial connection between two persons. Move up from there. Bottom line, clearly I’m of the opinion that your issue isn’t sex; it includes sex, but until you feel confident that you can secure a woman’s positive attention—a mutual attraction that can lead to sex, then this isn’t about getting laid. Or if you aren't interested in a relationship with women beyond sex, then what’s wrong with prostitute? If you get as far as friendship, but not a sexual thing, you are also very lucky, I hope you won’t discount this. It gets harder and harder to make new friends as we get older and I'd hope friendship can hold the key to discovering what you need to work on in order to meet women and go beyond working next to them at the food bank. Frienship teaches us a lot about ourselves beyond the other good stuff they can bring to us. I wish you good luck (and great sex). Elle Elle answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 7 comments by IdaB, IdaB, and EricaP… 1 1 great response! I would just add my observations after being married to a socially awkward man for a long time. It was very difficult for him to make friends. This was in part because he was not good at asking other people about their lives and opinions. He also didn't pick up on the social cues when someone was bored with his ramble. We need to teach social skills as much as math, but we don't because there is the expectation that people will just pick up on them. Well a large part of our society, with Asbergers or not, doesn't just pick up on social skills. But they can be learned! Develop a list of good questions for a woman about herself and listen carefully to the answers. Remember little specific details about her that you can then later comment on or use to bring presents. Practice sharing about yourself in twitter-length messages. If she asks follow up questions, go ahead and give longer answers, but if not move on to another subject. I don't know if any of this is relevant to you, but it's what I wish I could teach my ex. IdaB commented about 1 year ago | Report 1 1 I realized you didn't ask about a girlfriend, but about a sex partner. However, I think some of these tips can help even for a short term hook-up. You still need to be able to woo them into bed. IdaB commented about 1 year ago | Report 3 1 Also, if you see a sex worker a couple of times, you might ask her for advice on how you are presenting yourself. Sex workers are generally very good at reading people. EricaP commented about 1 year ago | Report 1 1 I think the feedback portion of your response is unhelpful. Most women will not be honest with Jon out of fear of hurting his feelings. Many of the rest will not have the slightest clue why he has so much trouble with women. Unless a woman is someone he has specifically been interested in in the past, she will not know why he strikes out again and again. If we lived in a world with perfect honesty, I suspect the number one response would be: I had no idea you were attracted to me. keshmeshi commented about 1 year ago | Report 1 0 K: I completely respect your POV, because it's based on your own experience and so it is true. True for you. I've had a very different experience over my life, so that's where my feedback thing came from. It's not theoretical on my part--the way I wish the world worked--but experiences I've had time and again. As for hurting feelings, that's what I wrote to him as well, that this would definitely not work with everyone but tried to assure him that this isn't a reflection on him but says more about how many people are conflict-averse. No sweat, move on. But there is definitely another breed of person and I know because I am one of them (!) and I have plenty of girlfriends who are like-minded (we are sassy and strong lot). Man, there have been times when I am chomping at the bit to give someone some feedback that I think would help them sooo much. Something that they are oblivious to that I'm certain is creating an obstacle to what they intend and want from others. But I don't, unless they give me an opening that lets me know they are concerned about this, etc. And I know I don't need to have gone out with Jon to give him very helpful advice--in person that is. Jon's dilemma isn't a subtle one; he's not asking why he can't find "the one". He's expressed that for all his adulthood he has been alone...I mean, even if he had sex all 5x with one person, I don't think that was a long-term relationship. So, alone. In spite of all his efforts to connect with women- he's not a baby, he's 34 y.o.--he doesn't succeed. There is something or things that are "off" right from the start. He has been social in different contexts and...nothing. So, the way I see it, is I I don't have to want to want to date someone to have a strong impression of their likeability in the universal sense. Take a job interview, for example, or an acting audition. People will have a strong opinion of how you present yourself and whether or not they want to talk to you again after a very short period of time. I am not saying their judgment about who you are at your core is close to being right; but, hey, as far as moving forward in theprocess, it will determine the fate of that audition or interview. Beyond skills, the decision makers will feel you either are or are not someone they'd like to get to know further. Elle Elle commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 1 Yay, I got this reopened! I'm going to try and respond to as much of Elle Elle's answer as my brain can handle at once: "women have wanted to have sex with you but only in the context of a relationship and you weren’t/aren’t interested in that" This is definitely not the case. I explain below that ideally I want sex within a long term committed relationship, but framed the question as one about sex because that's how Questionland promoted this category and Susie Bright. I have dated a couple women, but I've never had a girlfriend. Certainly the bulk of those I never had sex with. Face to face feedback from women? This is virtually impossible, as I explain on another answer. I've always had more female than male friends, but they've never been able to help me in this way. I've tried. Same for my two sisters or psychologist aunt. Or the one girl I dated briefly several years ago and am still in touch with. Somehow I suspect the women I need feedback from are the ones who were interested in me but I didn't know it--one of the many missed opportunities I would've taken had I seen them at the time. Also, I've barely dated, so the universe of women I could ask anything of here is really small, mostly outside Seattle, and mostly people I'm not in touch with and don't want to get back in touch with. I do sometimes feel mutual connectedness or sexual chemistry with women, but they're never available; lesbian, have boyfriends, or have husbands. Take this girl at my internship for example. I'm sure we had/have a connection of some kind and extent, but I have no way to see how far it might go. When I approach women, they either aren't interested or say/pretend they are but are actually leading me on. I get numbers, but when I call or text, the girl ignores me. Why can't I find women to date? I've offered people up to $500 to find me a girl to date. No dice. Life/relationship coaches- I'm seeing a therapist now, and have seen 14 on and off since 1995. I'm a wage slave right now and doubt I could afford to see a life or relationship coach. Honestly, I also doubt they could help me unless they were really well-versed in Asperger's. I hired a dating coach once, and it was just another frustrating, money-wasting fiasco. She told me to watch Sex and the City and talk to vegetables. Really. I'm happy to do role-playing and get feedback about others' first impressions of me. It seems like you need a group to accomplish that. If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. There are some Aspie groups around, but so far I haven't found any that 1) I can afford, and 2) I can get to since I choose not to have a car. What's wrong with a prostitute? I address that below. I have plenty of female friends; that's the problem. I'm always the friend, never the boyfriend. I can't tell you how many times I've been in this situation (http://www.theonion.com/articles/but-if-we-started-dating-it-would-ruin-our-friends,11473/) or how painfully accurate that Onion article is. Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response. Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report 0 0 IdaB: "We need to teach social skills as much as math, but we don't because there is the expectation that people will just pick up on them. Well a large part of our society, with Asbergers or not, doesn't just pick up on social skills." YES!!! Abso-fuckin-lutely! Most people learn these without even realizing it, so they don't even know how to learn or teach them, and can't really grasp what it is to be a teen or adult and not have them. I think I may have some of the skills your partner lacks/lacked though. I'm a great conversationalist, able to make small talk (though I don't really like it), and have a massive memory especially for details about women I'm attracted to. My issues may be more physical...I don't know...what I wouldn't give to be a woman or a gay man! Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 7 Q&A: 0 0 0 7 0 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0 Adam Washington

  5 0 So I'm an Asperger's male, and we have some things in common... attractive, smart, successful as judged by others. Maybe I have Asperger's lighter than you. I'm now in a long-term relationship, and have been married for several years. From the outside, people will wonder "if you're so smart, why can't you just apply your brain to this problem?" The answer is you kindof can. You can practice recognizing other people's emotions and intentions. You can practice looking people in the eye, and noticing how close somebody stands to you, how they rise and lower their shoulders or lean into you. You can practice maintaining that eye contact during a conversation with a woman. Turn it into a kind of brain game, where you imagine the musculoskeletal system putting her body into the position it is, and what that might mean. After I was in the long-term relationship that became my marriage, I looked back with a new perspective, and realized how many times women had thrown themselves at me and I was too oblivious to realize it. I did this at age ten, age 12, age 14, age 17, age 20, etc. This directly contributed to me having a lower number of partners than I would otherwise have had based on how attractive I am. Women are subtle for an asperger's guy. Getting called by a girl is not subtle. That girl at least wants to spend more time with you. Getting asked to a movie is not subtle. Women deliberately sitting right next to you when several other choices are available is not subtle. I would miss all of those cues when I was younger. Try, try, try not to dwell on this when you realize your mistakes. The other cues do get more subtle, like when to kiss and when not to. Or when a woman wants you to initiate sex, and the only signal you get is the way she looks at you. Holding hands is a safe start to touching a stranger on a date. I suspect that if you really are describing yourself accurately- so attractive and articulate that people sometimes wonder whether you're gay- that you are missing signals that would get other guys into a relationship. Once you're in a romantic relationship, sex follows. Sometimes, sex also follows meeting somebody, and your only relationship is sex. Your goal is to talk to people, have at least some of those people be women, and have some women you talk to be women with whom you are on a date. As to your lament about the attractive women you know in relationships, those women know other single women who have similar values. Every once in a while, ask an innocent question like what they're planning to do with their weekend. Consider going to places or doing things like that, as apparently at least one woman you find attractive goes there sometimes. If you want to be bolder, ask your attractive attached women acquaintances if they know anybody whom they think you would be interested in dating. And practice talking to your attractive friends. It should help your confidence if nothing else. Adam Washington answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 1 comment by Susie Bright… 0 0 I think this is a wonderful answer. You're hired! Susie Bright commented about 1 year ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 2173 Q&A: 44 0 19 988 85 2 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 2 MyrnaMinkoff

  5 2 The feedback below is smart, and looks at your issue more holistically. However, I wonder if you're just coming on too strong to women? I have a couple of good friends who are in similar situations -- both insanely smart men, successful in their careers (one is a physicist, the other a software developer), and are both really good people. One is probably on the Asperger's spectrum, but I've never been brave enough to ask him about it. What I've noticed about both of them (and their difficulties with women) -- their notion of flirting is often very heavy-handed, and is frequently focused exclusively on sex. That is, when they approach a woman, their first thought is: "I want to have sex with her" not "I bet she'd be a cool person to hang out with." As a result, once they both get a little more friendly with a woman, they tend to be far more bold and explicit: "Would you like to have sex with me?" or "I want to touch your breasts." In other words, they come on VERY STRONG, which can be very off-putting (and weird and creepy). Women are NOT wired this way. If you think about it from an evolutionary standpoint, we're looking for a dude who will help raise our children. That is, he must be someone who can be present sexually, but also can do things like hold a conversation on interesting topics, be willing to go to the store, make dinner, do the dishes, help around the house, and generally be a thoughtful, dynamic, fully cooperative mate. When a dude comes across too strong, he emphasizes his functioning penis first (yaaaawn), and fails to show a woman that he can do all of the OTHER things that will attract her. So, as shitty as it sounds, you may need to put your penis away (metaphorically) when you're hanging out with women. Start with friendship first, and when you DO flirt, do it in a way that is not sexual. Say something like, "you look great today", and smile when you talk to her. Ask to "hang out", and share with her the stuff that you care about that isn't sexual. Like cooking? Make dinner together. Or, whatever you find interesting that brings out your best, warmest, happiest self, and fully engages her, too. Another guy friend of mine from childhood is also on the Asperger's spectrum, and discovered some ten years ago that he loved the structured artistry of swing dancing -- these days, the dude has a significantly more active sex life than I do these days, and he's in amazing shape. I guess the biggest piece of advice I have is to be persistent with asking women out and being up front about being interested, but try to put the sex second, until you're far enough along where it is appropriate. The other advice here to talk to your friends and get honest answers about what you're doing wrong may help. Finally, DO NOT feel badly about going to see a sex worker. Seriously, if the "I NEED TO HAVE SEX NOW" drive is what is killing your game with women, seeing a sex worker would probably help take the pressure off. She would, I'm sure, also be happy to help you figure out how to interact with women sexually, and figure out what the appropriate rhythm and approach should be during sex. Best of luck to you! MyrnaMinkoff answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 1 comment by Jon Morgan… 0 0 So you think I'm coming off too strong, and Keshmeshi thinks I'm not strong/clear enough. I say you two discuss it, work out the answer, and I'll take it and go from there. Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 156 Q&A: 4 0 1 61 5 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0 Susie Bright

  3 1 Well first of all, I don't mind you paying a prostitute one bit. Tim Burgess' political influence will come and go but both your, and his libido will endure. Do you really want a sex partner or a romantic partner as well? That would make a difference in my answer. I am intrigued that you've tried a few different things— I want to know what didn't work with each one, and whether you gained any practical wisdom from those efforts. As for just plain ole hooking up, there are two things that are undeniable: Proximity is Everything— if you don't "hang out" with a set of people regularly, nothing will happen. Sheer familiarity and being within grabbing distance really goes a long way. 2nd, when you want to cut through special issues, like you have above (Asbergers, no alcohol, loud noises)— personal ads are brilliant. You are upping your statistical chances in a game of serendipity, by narrowing the field a bit. Your question reads like an ad... there are surely some women reading it, looking at your attractive photo, and wondering, "What's the catch?" When you've had sex, what feedback did you get from your partners? What do the pros tell you? Are you a considerate passionate lover, are you "good in bed"? Where do things go off the rails for you? What you're saying so far seems... too easy, as if everyone is being ridiculously picky and you're a fine catch who is the unfortunate victim of boozy loud disco queens who reject you. There has got to be more to it! Susie Bright answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 11 comments by Jon Morgan, keshmeshi, and BasementDweller3… 0 0 Susie, first let me thank you for taking me seriously and trying to be helpful and not mocking or judgemental. I've been very surprised, pleasantly, at the responses here. I'll try to respond point by point. I've been told I come off as gay or asexual, that I seem not to exude sexual energy (whatever that means), that I'm intense, sensitive, funny, smart, thoughtful, sweet, passionate...the opinions others have of me tells as much about them as me. I've never been told I come off as desperate by someone who's actually met me. As an Aspie (not sure how well you know Asperger's), I can tell you I'm a bit clueless about my body language and what signals I may be sending unintentionally. I'm not as good as most people at reading others' body language, but I've learned and improved at it. I used to be very shy but overcame that, though physically I'm still slow to touch a woman until she touches me first and/or I know it's ok. I've never been loud, aggressive, or athletic. I'm pretty steeped in feminism from years of activism and work in the field. Yes, ideally I want sex within a committed, long term romantic relationship. But you were presented to us as an expert on sex, not dating or relationships, so that's why I asked my question as I did. If you ask whether I want A) just a sex partner, or B) a full relationship, my answer is: YES! I always wanted to have a promiscuous phase, but I've pretty much given up on that. I'd love to be able to have casual sex; if I can't have a relationship, I'd rather have a half loaf than none at all. I'm not sure it's practical for me to list every romantic or sexual attempt I've made in the last 20 years. Can you narrow down what you're looking for? I have paid for sex before. I'm not willing to do it now. The penalties if you're caught are pretty bad, not to mention the damage to any possible future bid for elected office. (And right now it looks likely that Burgess will be mayor in 2014) It's not a very satisfying sexual experience. Your time is very limited, it's very expensive, you can only touch in certain ways (often kissing isn't allowed), and you have no way to ensure that the woman you meet looks remotely like her photo, or that your personalities gel at all. Basically, there are a lot of problems that stem from prostitution's illegality, which doesn't seem poised to change in this country anytime soon. I don't see the relevance of how good I am in bed or what sexual feedback I've gotten from previous partners. I don't lack sexual confidence. I'm in proximity of gorgeous women constantly--I can't escape it. Being an introvert, I have a small number of close friends rather than a large group of friends, and I tend to hang out with them 1-1 or in small groups. I belong to a lot of social, political, and other groups where I'm around women I'm attracted to, but they are generally not attracted to me or not available. I have an internship I wanted in large part to meet an attractive woman who works there, but as is so often the case, she already has a boyfriend. Often it seems as if wherever there's a pretty girl, there's a boyfriend. I even met a second very attractive girl at this internship, but she recently introduced me to her husband. I'm not sure I get what you mean about familiarity or grabbing distance, or what I can do about that. I've written more personal ads than I can count. I've been on at least 25 dating sites in the last 6-7 years. I have some amazing horror stories. I've posted my own ads and answered others. Hundreds if not thousands of them. There are roughly 2 men per woman on dating sites, and women overwhelmingly ignore me when I contact them. Mens' ads tend not to get responses since women are busy answering the deluge of men writing them; we still have a sexist system where men are supposed to take all the initiative. Guys who don't ask for dates don't get them. I tried it 1999-2002. I ran the numbers for 2008 or 2009, and I pursued 110 women for first dates, of which I got 3, for a success rate of 2.7%. I've tried looking for women from my hometown, hiring a dating coach, doing the things I love to meet people with similar interests and values, sitting on Broadway with a "Will work for sex" sign...in fact I have a list of about 30 dating strategies I've tried, all without luck. Personal ads haven't done me much good. I'm not sure what to say when you say there must be a catch. Frankly that kind of offends me. If there is one, I sure don't know what it is! Though I guess I need to clarify that this picture is not me; it's of Canadian musician/broadcaster Jian Ghomeshi, who I chose as my "celebrity doppleganger" on Facebook when that meme circulated. I'm not quite as hot as he is. I am using my real name though. I'm willing to meet you or anyone else here in a public place to figure out my terrible secret and tell me what it is. Allena Gabosch, head of the Center for Sex-Positive Culture and another Questionland Expert, knows me and can't figure it out either. I don't look like Frankenstein, I don't pick my nose in public, and I bathe regularly. In fact, my psychiatrist suggested to me that I'm not doing anything wrong and that women ARE too picky these days. Want her number? I've been seeing therapists for this problem since 1995, about half men and half women. Fourteen of them. None of them can figure out why I can't get a romantic or sexual partner. It has brought me to the brink of suicide many times. Surely you can't believe that dating or society are meritocracies--that anyone can get the love, sex, romance, or relationship they want or need simply by asking or working for it. That's just not true; we have to distinguish the world as it is from the world as we wish it were. I know lots of awesome adults like me who've never had romantic relationships through no fault of their own. There are *millions* of great people who have nothing wrong with them but can't get a date or sex partner. I know I'm a great guy, that I have a long list of great qualities to offer a woman, and that I'd make a better boyfriend than 90% of the ones out there. That and $4 will buy you a latte. There's no catch I'm hiding; some of us just aren't lucky. The dating system excludes a lot of great people. Jon Morgan commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 0 First thing: I would never expect a psychiatrist to be honest with his/her patients. If your psychiatrist told you that you can't get laid because you're a loser, would you continue to go to her? Of course not, which is why she'll never tell you something that you don't want to hear. She also has no way to know how you present yourself to women you're sexually interested in. I also think you've pretty much answered your original question in your first paragraph here. You have trouble with body language, both exuding it and picking up on it, and you have trouble taking the initiative physically with women. The combination of those things is deadly. For pretty much everyone, body language is key to establishing mutual attraction at the outset. Most women also expect a man to make the first move physically, so, if you can't indicate your attraction non-verbally AND if you can't make the first move, any woman you're attracted to is going to conclude that you're not interested and will move on. I can't think of a single instance where there might be an exception. I've struggled with social anxiety most of my life, and, as such, I mostly converse with, become friends with, and (try to) date the other wallflowers I meet here and there. I greatly sympathize with men who have trouble showing attraction to women since I have always had the same trouble with men, but I also know from experience that dating shy men can be extremely frustrating. Almost every shy man I've been interested in ultimately made me feel like shit by acting like they weren't sexually attracted to me (whether they meant to or not). In retrospect, I think most were suffering from the same difficulties that you're facing, but it took me years to come to terms with it (and at this point my patience has been pretty much maxed out). If you want to try to continue overcoming your difficulties with body language, I can't praise Leil Lowndes' work http://www.amazon.com/Leil-Lowndes/e/B000APOPHO enough. keshmeshi commented about 1 year ago | Report 2 0 Have you tried looking for Aspie women? Or tried looking more in the science/tech/math fields where, admittedly, there are fewer women than men but where said women are more likely to appreciate the analytical side of your brain that you demonstrate above? I do agree with the shrinks not being able to figure it out because they don't see you in that context, so don't let that get to you. I do think you are right in your last paragraph above. Do you have any female friends? I think women that you know who are asked to help you figure out what is missing are going to be more help than a shrink or a book. Keep in mind that it will be hard for people to offer this advice especially if they think whatever it is that prevents you is something you can't help. You'll have to get past that social block on their part by asking for specific things you can do - break it down into small things they can help with and you can learn, help learning the body language thing for example, questions like "What do I do about getting to know this woman I really like better?", etc.. You'll need to really keep in contact with your advisor(s) all the way through to get a good picture of what you might be doing that isn't helping you make the connections you want. People love helping out with this sort of thing, it may not be successful in terms of getting you a relationship right away but it will be good feedback - if the person/people you ask for help have good insight and care about you. A lot of the "I am attracted to you, are you attracted to me?" stuff is body language and if you miss those signals women assume you aren't interested and stop signaling themselves. Your friends may need to see or have input on you "in the field" so getting set up with a friend of theirs (from whom they can get honest feedback and relay it to you - a lot to ask from someone but might be helpful), or having them nearby in flirting or even dating situations (stealthily listening in from a nearby table on a date? A little creepy maybe but if you are desperate for feedback and no one can tell you what the issue might be...). I also wouldn't get too downhearted about all the attractive women being fairly seriously attached - of course they are, if they are around your age. That doesn't mean you can't try to build friendships with them - if you want to date women like them, it's probable they are also good friend material, and their honest feedback will be useful to you (once you get to know them well enough to explain your issue and ask). It will be easier to get frank opinions from them if your friendship with them is clearly limited to the platonic by the very existence of that same boyfriend/husband and most importantly, they've got single friends. And boyfriends don't always last forever. Have you ever had your friends set you up with someone? How did it go? BasementDweller3 commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 0 Keshmeshi, That is one possibility, but many others still remain. It obviously resonates with you, and I'll look into that body language link, but your theory doesn't explain why 107 of 110 women I asked for dates with ignored or rejected me. I don't see how someone could be unaware I'm attracted to them once I ask them out. Your theory would also preclude what little sex I've had and dating I've done. It doesn't seem to be entirely accurate to my case. Perhaps mental health professionals are inclined to tell patients what they want to hear, but they also have ethical and legal obligations to tell them what they need to hear and what would make them better. If they never made anyone better, they'd lose patients and money. In any case, my psychiatrist certainly didn't have to volunteer to me that perhaps I'm doing nothing wrong and women are just too picky. I was very shy for most of my life, so I can empathize with you, but I overcame it 7 years ago and am not shy anymore. I've since realized that women can be insecure about their attractiveness and that there's a need to be clear about this when attracted to someone (without being creepy or getting branded a sexual harasser, which feels tricky to navigate sometimes). But I get an equal number of people telling me I must come off as desperate or too strong (see other answer on this page), and when I blogged about this problem, I was accused of being so aggressive as to behave illegally. A woman I worked with flirted with me, and after we went out a couple times, the last for 8 hours, I kissed her. She berated me for it for weeks. I've often tried to kiss women and been rebuffed. My therapist (not psychiatrist) and I have discussed roleplaying so she can see how I act around women I'm interested in, but I think it needs to be a third-party observer situation to really work, which is virtually impossible to arrange. Either you're pretending to be into a friend or other helpful woman, and you're not in the same mindset because you're not really attracted to them or hoping/worrying about getting anywhere with them; or you're interacting with someone who doesn't know they're being watched which seems ethically sketchy. BasementDweller: I haven't sought out Aspie women specifically. I was only diagnosed a year ago. I haven't looked in the math/science fields; I'm not in them myself. I have repeatedly tried to get people to set me up--one of my failed dating strategies was to offer friends money to find me a date (Dating for Dummies suggested this). It never happened; I just received a lot of disdain. Lots of people say they'll find me someone to go out with or things along those lines, but they never follow through. I was sort of set up with a girl once in 2002, and she was the first girl I had a second date with or kissed, but it didn't go well or last long. She was looking for a rebound guy who'd support her emotionally when I was dealing with a very traumatic death and needed support myself. When I went to McGill, my psychiatrist said she needed to observe me with women to figure anything out, so she referred me to an outside therapy group with no women in it. Quebec is surreal like that. Yes, the majority of my friends have always been women. I get along better with the average woman than man. I'm often in situations where I'm the only male, including at my internship. And taking pottery as a kid, playing the flute in school, being active in feminist organizations, working professionally on women's issues, I have 2 sisters and no brothers....I've asked women for feedback many times, but they don't know any better than men. The Executive Director of CSPC can't figure it out, for crying out loud! Not sure how you could ask a girl for feedback who you've been out with but doesn't respond to you or rejected you. The other thing is that humans tend to be friends and lovers with people like themselves, and my friends are probably not that close to average either; their romantic situations aren't that much better than mine. I often try to befriend the women I like/am attracted to once I realize I can't date them. Generally I don't hear back from them and thus can't form a friendship. Often it amounts to being Facebook "friends" with no real interaction. I planned to try and befriend the woman I like at my internship anyway (the 2nd moved away). I'm sure she has friends who are also attractive and share my values. But based on experience, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I really appreciate everyone's sincere efforts here. Jon Morgan commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 1 Asking a woman out is not enough. I know from my experience and the experience of many others that there are many men who will ask out/date/have sex with/marry women they're not really attracted to because they think they can't do better. I also know women who have also made that conclusion and are married to men they don't really love. Besides, a date's purpose is to find out IF you like someone and are truly attracted to them. If you're sending out the wrong body language signals and missing women's signals, any woman you might be attracted to will move on. You might one day find a woman desperate enough to settle for a man who seems like he isn't attracted to her, but any woman of quality who has options and knows her worth will not stand for it. All women want to be desired. And being shy in general and being shy around romantic interests are two very different things. I've experienced men who acted like they were disgusted by me or acted like they hated my guts only to find out a while later that they supposedly were interested in me. These men didn't have any overt difficulties in conversing with people, but they did not express their attraction to women in a healthy way, let alone the fun, sexy, low-stakes way that actually attracts women. I understand why your therapist is trying to give you an ego boost, and it's important to highly value yourself if you're ever going to have romantic success, but it's really offensive to conclude that women are too picky. If anything, women aren't picky enough. I'm sorry that women don't play by rules that would make things easier for you, but if you've rarely had sex and can't find a relationship with anyone, you are doing something wrong. I've done online dating myself, going on one to four dates a week. Many of the men I dated were like you: attractive, intelligent, totally clueless about how to interact with women (which is why they were online), and they did not strike out 97 percent of the time. Something about the way you present yourself online (I'm assuming most of those 110 women who "rejected" you were online based on the sheer volume) is turning women off. If a woman you can't date isn't interested in being friends with you, that's definitely a strong clue that the two of you aren't compatible. It really worries me, this preoccupation you seem to have with individual women, to the point that finding out that Woman X is in a relationship is enough to crush your spirits. Even just for your own mental health, it's important to take a step back and not invest so much in any individual person. Additionally, I've been on the receiving end of men who put all their relationship hopes and dreams on me, and it's extremely uncomfortable, even to the point of being scary. In a couple of cases, I might have been interested in giving those men a chance had they not done that, but I won't risk dating someone who can't handle rejection. keshmeshi commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 0 Well, since your diagnosis is new, it might help to see if you can find people in the Aspie community who are having the same sorts of issues (Adam's response below is the best so far), some of whom may even be women. I know it can be a weird mix of relief and distress when you are diagnosed with anything, but you can make it work for you by finding out how others solved similar problems (have you put up a dating profile with your diagnosis in it? Have you searched for Aspie women?). I also think it might help to find a support group for Aspies and find a shrink who has significant experience in helping people on the lighter end of the spectrum. You seem to expect that a shrink might be able to come up with an answer that will fix it though - keep in mind that shrinks are people, are fallible (they didn't diagnose you until this year!), don't have godlike powers and are just as often wrong as you or I. Just because someone has rank or title doesn't mean they know anything about what is going on with you, and their failure to figure it out doesn't mean it's insolvable or even that much of a mystery. Don't put too much faith in shrinks or books. A support group could be a godsend though, depending on who is in it - if you can, try several. Online if not in person. You say in your last paragraph that you don't seem to be able to make friendships with the women you are attracted to, but that you do have/have had mostly female friends. Have you never been attracted to any of those female friends? Is there no overlap between the women you are friends with and the women you are attracted to? Cause that's where I'd start. It's much much easier to develop a sexual relationship with someone you know and who knows you pretty well, it skips you right past whatever your social awkwardnesses may be. I do know that I have gone out with socially awkward people before (and am one myself), and when I haven't been interested in a relationship with them because they had such difficulties socially, I really do want to help them, but can't because I believe it would hurt them emotionally to know what they are doing wrong (although I have asked for feedback myself, and gotten it from time to time, and it's been helpful - but you have to be honest about your situation and that you hope for nothing more out of the person than feedback so you can better find other fish in the sea, and not sound maudlin). It's too touchy of a situation, and their desperation makes it even more clear to me that I can't risk trying to help them out because no matter what they are too fragile to accept that info and too likely to latch on to me as their only support, or interpret my concern as interest. If you are able to come off as sane, genuinely interested in self-improvement, with a sense of humor about it rather than self-hatred, and able to recognize boundaries, it might be possible to get some feedback from someone you've gone out with - via email if not in person (in person is a lot of pressure - your friends may be able to better advise via email than in person too for this reason). When a date is clearly a disaster I'll ask for this info during the date - "Hey, look, clearly this is a fiasco of epic proportions, but any tips for doing better with the next guy? Because the two of us clearly have no future, and I am obviously in need of some kind of serious guidance. Or prayer." There is obviously something going on, it's likely related to your Asperger's, so start there. Your friends may know but not be able to articulate what it is that is blocking you - maybe as you learn more about your diagnosis you can help them find words for it. It's almost impossible for us to tell you anything concrete without knowing you in person. If you want in person advice about your technique with asking women out, get a wingman or wingwoman to take notes. I'd recommend expecting absolutely nothing out of this date wise, but maybe helpful info from the wingperson. That said, Adam's comments below are the most relevant and likely most accurate because he's had the most similar life experience. What you are describing is common for people with Aspergers - if you find out how others have overcome these obstacles, maybe you can too. You've been running into a wall for a long time because you didn't have the weapon of a diagnosis - now you do - use it, find out the basics, get in person real life help with it, and see if you can get things to change. I get the feeling you are pursuing impossible women and ending up frustrated over and over again. You're going to have to learn a lot of things most people don't even know are learned skills because they learned them as children - your friends may be in this bind - they see how you behave/present but don't realize you can learn new skills, like how to better read body language, because they can't recall a time when they learned it - also because of this, they don't know how to teach it or that it is even teachable. Maybe try interpersonal therapy, which focuses on developing interpersonal communication skills? There are curriculums for teaching these things, and there are teachers, even Aspie specific training. I think there's a lot of reasons for you to be hopeful, and a lot of things you haven't yet done that might be useful, especially as far as your diagnosis goes. You are super smart - you are in a better position than most to pick up new skills. I always kind of likened learning human body language to an animal behavior study - I learned horse body language while learning to train horses, and actually learned a lot more about how to interact with people from that - much of it carried over. If you start watching people as if you were observing gorillas in the Congo, it sounds silly but you might learn something. At the very least it's amusing. Good luck! BasementDweller3 commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 1 Keshmeshi: You're making a deeply flawed assumption here. Namely, that dating is fair, perfect, and meritocratic. Just because someone has trouble dating or is unable to date does not necessarily mean anything is wrong with them at all; it's at least as likely that the problem lies with the dating system itself. BD: I'm trying in a couple ways to find other Aspies who have or have dealt with similar issues to mine. I'm working with my therapist now on physical cues. You're right about the mixed bag that a diagnosis is. When I got it, it was a huge relief that gave me new hope I might finally be able to date. In the intervening year, I've since learned how different we few Aspies are from everyone else, and how few non-Aspies even care to learn about Asperger's or how we function differently. Being a minority, you have to either bend to the norms of the majority (extremely difficult in this case) or stay ghettoized within your minority community. It's a shitty choice. I'm told there are women out there who like smart, quirky guys like me, but I sure can't seem to find one. I haven't looked for Aspie women specifically, but I've now just posted something looking for Aspie women in Seattle. I think I looked on an Aspie dating site a while back, and there just weren't any anywhere near Seattle. The online dating profile I maintain does say that I have Asperger's, with a link to the Wikipedia entry. My therapist specializes in Asperger's; I looked for that when I went to get a diagnosis. She often notes that my social functioning is much better than many of her clients. I realize therapists are fallible, but I do think years of specialized study and degrees are worth something. I've looked for Aspie support groups, but I have trouble finding anything I can afford and can get to given my being car-free. I have been attracted to female friends in the past. And I've lost friendships over trying to pursue it. I've also had female friends who were attracted to me when I wasn't attracted to them, and I've mostly lost those friendships too. I've learned that trying to befriend a girl I'm attracted to before trying to date her is a surefire way to fail, so I don't do it anymore. At this point, no, there really isn't overlap between the women I'm attracted to and the women I'm friends with. If I've been on dates that were clearly disasters, I haven't been aware of it (except the girl years ago who whipped out her cell phone to call another guy, which I don't count as my fault). I think I do pretty well on dates, but then I really never get 2nd ones. And if a girl then won't interact with you, it's pretty hard to get any feedback. "It's almost impossible for us to tell you anything concrete without knowing you in person." This is why I made my offer to meet anyone here in person as long as it's in a public place. "If you want in person advice about your technique with asking women out, get a wingman or wingwoman to take notes." The problem with that is I don't really have any friends who've had much luck with dating either; they can't figure my situation out any more than I can, and they have their own to worry about. "I get the feeling you are pursuing impossible women and ending up frustrated over and over again." Impossible women, I really don't think so. Especially when I see some of the truly ugly, stupid, mean guys some women are with. The rest is true. I vacillate between a state of learned helplessness where I don't bother because all I get is rejections and frustration and can't take the emotional hit, and a state of defiantly trying anyway because I'm an existentialist and don't want to go down without a fight even if I know I'm excluded from the world of dating, love, and sex. "You're going to have to learn a lot of things most people don't even know are learned skills because they learned them as children - your friends may be in this bind - they see how you behave/present but don't realize you can learn new skills, like how to better read body language, because they can't recall a time when they learned it - also because of this, they don't know how to teach it or that it is even teachable." Less with my closer friends, but yes, this is absolutely what happens. People judge and don't even try to understand because they don't realize that they learned these skills, or how or when, and they have no idea how one learns or teaches them. I don't know how or where to learn them either, and that's a huge frustration. It's not like I'm unwilling to put in the work. Do you know more about these curricula or teachers? It sounds roughly like what I need. Thanks. Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report 0 1 PS- My internship ended, and I invited the girl I really like there to hang out after work sometime, but she never answered. She didn't come in on my last day either. She's really awesome, and we definitely had a connection bantering and joking and stuff. It's just painful now not being able to see her at all. But this is what happens to me when I meet a girl I like and hit it off with--she's already taken and/or won't interact with me. Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report 0 0 I wanted to say that your experience with escorts is totally different from mine. I think you're not paying enough. Can you afford women who have their own, personal websites, and who charge about $300/hour? Those women are really nice and experienced with all kinds of people. As far as getting arrested, that's really really unlikely if you go through TER (The Erotic Review) and only hire women with a bunch of reviews written by men who are very active on the site. Since you're using your real name here, I understand not admitting to a crime, but I do encourage you to spend more and have a happier experience. EricaP commented 11 months ago | Report 0 1 Also, I wanted to let you know that you sound really argumentative. People are giving suggestions, and you reject everything. That's very unappealing. The best advice is to get happy being alone, and once you don't care about meeting someone, that's when you will. EricaP commented 11 months ago | Report 0 0 Namely, that dating is fair, perfect, and meritocratic. Just because someone has trouble dating or is unable to date does not necessarily mean anything is wrong with them at all; it's at least as likely that the problem lies with the dating system itself. I'm not the one making assumptions here. At no point did I claim that dating is "perfect." It's a way for two people to see if they are attracted to each other and have a connection. That connection can be based on many different factors, and people less "deserving" are capable of connecting with others. No one can control whom they're attracted to, otherwise you would have had a girlfriend by now since, by your own admission, women have been attracted to you and you rejected them. It's not necessarily your fault that women you want don't want you, but it is your problem to correct. If chiding women for liking the "wrong" type of man actually worked, there would be no lonely men in the world. Especially when I see some of the truly ugly, stupid, mean guys some women are with. *eye roll* My internship ended, and I invited the girl I really like there to hang out after work sometime, but she never answered. Stop obsessing over women who don't want you. keshmeshi commented 11 months ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 650 Q&A: 14 0 3 360 50 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0

  0 0 You're a dead ringer for Jian Ghomeshi. I doubt he has much trouble finding intimacy. Maybe you should ask him. Bauhaus answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 2 comments by Jon Morgan and Susie Bright… 0 0 I am really tickled that anyone here recognized Jian! The pic is him, not me. Jon Morgan commented about 1 year ago | Report 1 0 I just met Jian TODAY for the first time, never knew him before. I said, "you are a dead ringer for this guy who just wrote me looking for sex." to say he was floored is putting it mildly. Dude, change your foto! Susie Bright commented about 1 year ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 0 Q&A: 0 0 0 0 0 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0 samantha83

  0 0 Hi Jon, I'm sorry you've found yourself in this situation, but please know that you're not alone. There are plenty of people out there that haven't done the deed recently or enough to satisfy their appetite! First off, please know that in your condition, seeking a sex buddy probably won't work out as well as you might expect. Consider that you might get attached (like most of us do!) and that it could put a huge emotional strain on your personal life. In short, I think you shouldn't give up on searching for true love! There are sooo many niche dating sites out there that cater to your personal needs, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that there might be dating sites just for people with Asperger's... I mean, there are dating sites for people with herpes so I don't see why not! If it doesn't exist, maybe you should pioneer it! Meaningless sex will only fulfill for a short amount of time... trust me when I say sex without love becomes a selfish act and as such, you don't get to appreciate the act of someone else pleasing you as it's only a "how can I please myself" situation. Keep looking! Ms. perfect will show up when the time is right! —Sam samantha83 answered in Sex 11 months ago | Report Comment on this answer Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: -4 Q&A: 0 0 0 1 5 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0

  0 1 Ask a female friend to hook you up with a girl. When you go on a date make sure you dont talk too much and laugh and smile as much as possible. If she touches you then she probably likes you. When you call her back for a second date dont call more than once. If she doesent call you back then move on. You have to put yourself out there and dont worry about rejection. Also dont be too quick to dismiss a girl that you are not sure you are attreacted to. My experience has been that beautiful women can be arrogant (not always) and are too much a pain in the ass. Most importantly be yourself! Women love a guy who is natural. matty108 answered in Sex 11 months ago | Report Comment on this answer Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend:

• Reputation: 25 Q&A: 0 0 0 60 35 0 Classifieds: 0 0 what's this? Follow Following 0

  0 3 Scroll up - there's a chick looking for a good roll in the hay who posted a question. Also, you can for sure get laid on Love Lab. Women like the quirky. Especially ones who are good in bed. Livi answered in Sex about 1 year ago | Report 5 comments by Jon Morgan, Livi, and Jon Morgan… 0 1 I've been on Love Lab. And Lust Lab. Never had any luck on either. Never met anyone from either. I suppose others see me as quirky. I never really asked for that. Jon Morgan commented about 1 year ago | Report 1 0 Quirky is not a bad thing - I am drawn to it. My son has Asp - he is very quirky. As are the other's I've met with it. Have you been to any groups for Asp? Like for social skills? That might help. John Robison's new book might be a good read for you too. Livi commented about 1 year ago | Report 0 0 I hear that there are women out there who like quirky men, but I haven't met any or I might've had a girlfriend at some point in my 34 years. I'm not aware of groups for learning social skills. That's the whole frustrating problem. I'm willing to put in the work, as I did to overcome passive-aggressiveness and shyness. But there is not place, class, teacher, therapy group for learning social skills as far as I or my last few therapists can tell. What's the book's name and subject? Jon Morgan commented 12 months ago | Report 0 0 Be Different: Adventures of a Free-Range Aspergian by John Robison (things an adult w/Asp. has done in his life to cope/be successful/fit it). Groups: There are a lot based for kids/teens w/Asp. ASD. There are some for adults - check: http://seattleaspergers.org/aspieadults.aspx for info. Livi commented 12 months ago | Report 0 0 I know that page. My therapist is on that list. There's only 1 group there I can both afford and get to, and I keep trying to make it but never do. Jon Morgan commented 11 months ago | Report Enter your comment or ask a new question preview THIS IS A PREVIEW: Click "Post" to submit it or "Edit" to make changes. edit Please wait… This could take a minute if the tubes are clogged.

  Share this answer with a friend: