"Clothes are for closets."

Er, shouldn't that be "closets are for clothes"?

*FACEPALM* Yes Fnarf, I got that one backwards, my bad. Too bad I can't edit it... Thanks for pointing it out

just made me wonder if you wander around naked a lot. I know I do (not outside, though).

When the pride parade rolls around in my town, I'm definitely going topless with "Clothes Are For Closets" painted on my chest....

I think this is a shroom-worthy answer. I agree that this is a pertinent question (it certainly doesn't deserve any down votes, much less 7 of them). I'm about 99% certain that Dan Savage himself raised a similar question a few years back in some Slog post or podcast, but I can't find it!

In questionland there is a strong negative response to people who make opinionated statements and put a question mark at the end. We all know who dan is and what he is about. The OP seems to be presenting his opinion and has responded to many eloquent and some angry answers by restating that opinion. All we know about him is that he seems to have a problem with overt gay sexuality and he doesn't seem satisfied by the answers given.

If this had been asked in a different way and the follow-up comments from the OP avoided words like "lifestyle" I am certain that it would have been treated differently. In any case it started a long conversation and that is a good thing.

Agree with all of the above wholeheartedly.

You'd never be able to tell the guy may have issues from his avatar would you?

"in questionland"

You do know its not a real place, right kip?

Neo: I thought it wasn't real
Morpheus: Your mind makes it real
Neo: If you're killed in the matrix, you die here?
Morpheus: The body cannot live without the mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

I can't wait to see you there! Maybe you can tell me a story about how the Incredible Hulk fucked Rainbow Bright....

This guy is a serious ass.

False dichotomy? Meaning I implied some kind of false division in the question or what the hell does that mean?

Respectfully, I agree with some of the statements you made in your answer but you didn’t answer the question…

You say that you don’t think Pride is about the legal fight for rights… If that is your answer to my question, perfect. Some might disagree with you, though. So when it comes to the actual fight for gay rights and equality, do you think the extravagant celebration and parade add any reinforcement to the GLBT side of the fight? Not so much?

By false dichotomy, I mean that you suggested that Pride is EITHER "further[ing] the cause of gay rights" or that it is "a hindrance." When you put it that way, you are setting aside the possibility that Pride actually has a completely different purpose, and assuming that it must actually create one of the outcomes you mention. It's like asking whether spring break helps or hinders students achieve their bachelor degrees. Sure- it's something that many college students do once a year, but it's not really about their academic careers. I can't answer your question, because I find its fundamental assumption to be false.

However, I did add some of my own observations about what purpose I think Pride does serve, and I'll try to be more specific to the question here. I certainly don't think it hurts the fight- on the contrary, it helps the people with the most vested interest in gaining their rights come together, see themselves as part of a group, and shake off apathy by being involved in a joyful event.
As I said above, anyone who is willing to continue withholding civil rights on the basis of Pride is not the kind of person who's going to be persuaded to join the right side of the fight anyway, because straights who judge gays for being part of Pride are already treating them as "other" and holding them up to different standards. Those straights would never look at a rare instance of behavior by a group of straight people and then seek to use it as proof that all straights didn't deserve rights to marriage, adoption, employment protection, or any other basic civil right. And as far as I'm concerned, gays should not have to act a certain way or sit down and shut up to get the rights that are morally theirs. Suggesting that gay people would have equal legal footing if they'd just stop making such a spectacle of themselves is completely disingenuous (I know that you're not making that claim- but some do). Rights are not something that gay people should have to "earn" by proving to straights that they are staid and respectable. They're owed to every person in our society, equally, regardless of what LEGAL activities in which they choose to engage.

I think the way that gay rights are going to be solidified is, ultimately, through political channels. Changes to existing laws will be proposed and voted upon. We'll elect leaders who believe in and implement equality. But one of the steps toward that equality is being visible. It's being out to friends, family members, coworkers, and acquaintances. It's a lot harder for people to mark an entire group as "other" when their best friends, their children, their uncles, their classmates are part of that group. The way to make being gay more and more accepted and normal is to make sure that gay people feel safe in and proud of who they are, and free to show it. Pride is (at least in part) about that feeling of safety and confidence.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

People tend to support what they can relate to. Most people can't relate to ass-less chaps.

Oh I get where you're going.
First, all chaps are ass-less, that's what makes them chaps and not pants. Straight people wear them too, hell straight people invented them (probably). Why are anti-pride people (both gay and phobes) so hung up on chaps? Really how many pairs of chaps are there at any given pride parade?

But more to the point, Do you really believe that there are people that were just about to support gay rights but then for some reason went to the pride parade, saw a guy in "ass-less chaps" and then were all 'fuck that, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!' ?
That's ridiculous.

For the record, I once dated a cowboy from Pendelton, Oregon he informed that all chaps, are, by virtue of being chaps, ass-less.

Indeed there is no such thing as a non-ass-less chaps. That would be pants.

It is also properly pronounced "shaps"

"Chaps" are men in England

"Most people can't relate to ass-less chaps."

Yeah, you've really fucking tried to mingle with anyone at pride.

Goth Jenny- Is it ridiculous? Maybe to you and me… I believe that there are many folks who cannot see past some of the media portrayal of the homosexual lifestyle- including but not limited to a bare-assed man or woman parading around in chaps.
Yeah- All chaps are ass-less. My bad. I do believe that Wildrose Trading Co. (no pun intended) sells a nice pair of field chaps with a removable ass-liner, though. Most people wear jeans or something under the chaps to protect their ass – except for the gays at the pride parade…
I do understand the purpose of Pride Week and the parade. I guess I just don’t understand how foisting sexual innuendo will somehow comfort closeted homosexuals or re-invigorate a sense of community.

Sorry, I still don't understand how any of this is hindering gay rights.
Are you gay and concerned or just trolling?

"lifestyle" = troll

It is a protest march. If you are not offended, we aren't doing it right.

Yes, I can be a troll :o) This was a genuine question, though… “Does Gay Pride Week actually further the cause of gay rights, or is it more of a hindrance?”
If someone asked me this question, I would say that the parade itself probably has a neutral affect on gay rights, but that Pride Week is in fact a concept to foster a sense of community. My hope is that Pride Week and the parade would promote a mentality in which diversity is a gift and that sexual orientation and gender identity are inherent. I’m just unsure as to whether or not it actually does anything for our cause – which is why I asked the question.

"Yes, I can be a troll :o) This was a genuine question, though…"

It's not asked in a sincere manner. If you think the existence of a person in chaps is enough to dehumanize the whole of everyone involved in the parade, you're not putting a lot of thought in.

“If you think the existence of a person in chaps is enough to dehumanize the whole of everyone involved in the parade, you're not putting a lot of thought in.”

I couldn’t agree more.

As for the question, though: “Does Gay Pride Week actually further the cause of gay rights, or is it more of a hindrance?” How could I have asked this with more sincerity? Please elaborate.

"I guess I just don’t understand how foisting sexual innuendo will somehow comfort closeted homosexuals or re-invigorate a sense of community."

First of all, Pride Week isn't just about sex, which is what you're fixating on. But having pride in gay sexual expression is an important part of it, because that is exactly the thing homophobes think gays should be most ashamed of. Putting it out there is a way of saying, I'm not ashamed of this, I celebrate it, because it's part of me and damn it, I think it's beautiful. That message *does* draw people out of the closet, it *does* foster a sense of community -- whether you approve or not.

And why should Pride Week be devoid of sexual expression when straight culture is dripping with it? Hollywood movies, music videos, fashion shows, billboards, art galleries... heterosexual desire is being celebrated all around us, all the time. Is that a problem for you, too, or is it just the once-a-year Pride Week that bothers you so much?

Wait -- "comfort closeted homosexuals"?

I see. This is like arguing that the women's rights movement was a hindrance to the cause of women's rights, because it made some traditional women uncomfortable. Or that civil rights activists were a hindrance to the cause of civil rights because "People tend to support what they can relate to" and "Most people can't relate to [a crowd of protesting black folks"].

Do you get what I'm saying?

Irena- I get what you’re saying. Thank you, I love your answer. And yes, I am fixated on the sex. I imagine that most people fixate on the sex when it comes to Pride Week and the parade and it’s difficult not to- which is the thought that my original question was born from. Some people discriminate against it and some people don’t.
Please do not assume that heterosexual or homosexual desire and/ or expression personally bothers me… I think it’s great. Pride Week and the parade contain a lot of it, too and I love it… It doesn’t bother me and I personally approve.
****************************
“But having pride in gay sexual expression is an important part of it, because that is exactly the thing homophobes think gays should be most ashamed of.”

Most homophobes I know or knew are actually ashamed of and insecure in their own true sexuality. So in your mind, how does Pride Week or the parade contribute to the derailment of homophobia? Would that question be more appropriate in your mind? Also, it may or may not be accurate to compare the women’s rights movement and the cause for civil rights to the Gay Pride Parade or Pride Week. The GLBT community faces a much more modern and complicated fight for rights. But then again, maybe the Pride Week and parade are our collective, modern answers to the fight for rights, and the best that we can do… I don’t know. That’s why I asked the question.

I like to think of pride in the frame of St. Patrick's Day. It's not "the same" but once upon a time people didn't like the Irish and it was hard for them to get jobs, not get randomly beaten up, and generally achieve a normal life in America. Through that time St.Patrick's parades happened as a show of Irish pride once a year. Were the St Patrick's parades responsible for Irish liberation/assimilation? Probably not so much, but they did show that the Irish were a part of america that wasn't going away and nowadays even non-Irish people participate in St. Patrick's day and get hella drunk amd wear "kiss me I'm Irish" shit. Is this a positive accurate reflection on the Irish? not so much. Does it cause people to re-consider Irish acceptance? yeah right. Does it make the Irish seem like an integral part of our society to the point where hating the Irish is just funny? Hell. Yes.
My hope is that in 20 years everyone will go to pride and wear rainbow ass-less chaps and get way too drunk and sexy.
Pride is a piece of the fight for rights and it's the piece that says 'hey! we're here and we're not hiding, we're not ashamed, and we're not going away! the spectacle is an important part of that.
Most of the "serious" work happens in our homes, neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and governing bodies.
That's just me though, go to pride and talk to people, it means different things to different people.

How does Pride Week contributes to the derailment of homophobia? As one component of the larger struggle toward visibility, acceptance, and normalization. And that one component -- one week per year when the gay community celebrates publicly -- lets all of us know that gay people are here and proud and celebrating themselves with the affirmation of the larger, straight community. So in a way it's pragmatic (letting kids know they're not alone, stirring up new activist blood), but in another way it's symbolic; it symbolizes our acceptance, openness and humanity. That feels good. (It's about love, when it comes down to it.) It also symbolizes sexual freedom -- Pride is liberating for everyone. That makes homophobia look pretty boring and unattractive.

There will always be people who are put off by Pride parades, but that's because they are put off by gays, or gay sexuality, or perhaps sexuality, period. For the rest of us, Pride affirms something very positive about who we are.

One more thing: I think it's fine to not be into Pride. Honestly. It's fine to be put off by the overt sexuality, just as it's fine to be put off by overt sexuality in a painting or a Hollywood movie. If you don't like it, you don't have to go. But no, I don't think it's a hindrance. Maybe, for someone like that, an annoyance, at worst.

"And yes, I am fixated on the sex."

And that's your bag. Perhaps you should meditate on that for a while longer.

"I imagine that most people fixate on the sex when it comes to Pride Week"

Even if I see someone in chaps, I don't think about fucking them, getting fucked by them, or who they're going home to fuck.

You're wrong, and similarly conservative people think about other peoples' fucking far too much. Stop being so obsessed with other peoples' sex lives.

Sexuality != sex.