Roger that. Bitch face, check. Realized I can play Pandora radio on my phone, check.
So, if ignoring and the face don't work and I'm getting shouted at for being a bitch, is it better to run, keep ignoring, say something back to them, pretend to make a call? I've done all of these at one point or another, with varying success that was probably context dependent. I hate running because I feel like that's giving in to harrassment, but sometimes I worry that a physical altercation could actually happen one day. I'm of the mind that if anyone actually touches me, all bets are off.

After that point, I think you just need to use your best judgment. Despite getting angrier and angrier over the years about harassment, I've only once actually shouted at a harasser who had actually physically assaulted me. He was too much of a coward to even look at me.

When dealing with assholes who won't stop mouthing off for whatever reason, I find walking away while flipping them off (and not even looking at them) is pretty effective. It gets the message across, and it doesn't give them an opening to escalate further.

And since you have a phone, it never hurts to have it in your hand to threaten calling 911 if necessary.

l'm not sure about avoiding talking to men in public altogether; that seems a bit extreme to me. Sure, every man has the potential to go nuts on you, but it seems to me to be a statement of fear to avoid them entirely. Using your best judgment of the situation once interaction has begun is good enough, as it's fairly obvious early in the conversation whether or not it's headed for unpleasantness. But l've made new friends, lovers, and dates from being open enough to the conversation and circumstances to engage, and those are worth it.

Since mixy lives in D.C., I stand by the statement. If she really gets a good vibe from a guy, then she could open up, but, for the most part, guilty-until-proven-innocent is going to help preserve her sanity. I gave many nice-seeming men the benefit of the doubt when I lived in New York. Many of them took the opportunity to proposition me.

And for clarification's sake, I'm talking primarily about street/public transportation interactions. The vast majority of good guys don't bother speaking to women in those settings (and if they do, they tread very carefully) because they know it's generally not well received (for completely understandable reasons).

Additionally, if she's sending out don't-fuck-with-me vibes as she's out and about and a guy still tries to approach her? It's pretty much guaranteed that he's not a good, rational person, because good, rational people don't approach people who look like they don't want to be bothered.

Uh, yeah, DC is a whole nother party. That town is nuts. l definitely agree with that, and the last paragraph in particular. l stand corrected. :)

As far as I'm concerned, there's a rush hour highway sized difference between someone chatting because we both just saw something funny, he's commenting on a book I'm holding, etc and "Girl, you're so fine. Lemme get your number. What, why're you being so cold to me?" Unfortunately most of the attention I get in these environments falls into the latter category, and it's what I'm trying to get a lid on a bit here. I don't want to be totally closed off to everyone that talks to me, but I don't find these kinds of pick-ups to be anything but gross and irritating wastes of my time. I think if more women had some of these methods handy (and maybe if more men told their buddies to stop acting so ridiculous) we could see a reduction in this stuff here in DC.

Amen to that. And l agree with everything else too.

If mixy is taking the subway in D.C., there's pretty much no driver. I assume there's a conductor, but if D.C. Metro is anything like New York's, the conductor isn't going to do jack shit unless something really serious is going down. The train also isn't going to get held to eject a harasser.

But, if mixy is taking the train, she has the option of switching cars, or, in a worst case scenario, making a run for it just as the doors are closing so the harasser can't follow her.

Oh, Mixy's in DC? l must have missed that somewhere along the way. That would change things, yes. l thought we were discussing Seattle Metro buses in general.

I think a lot of this is universal, but yes, the conductor isn't accessible on trains here. Switching cars is much better option, if it comes to it. FWIW I had much less of an issue in Seattle when I visited last month. People seemed a lot more respectful there :)Maybe it's a west coast thang!

l wonder if switching cars would be a better option after you've given everyone else on the car you're on an opportunity to observe what's going on. lf you switch seats on that car and they follow, others might chip in. lf you go to another car where nobody knows what was going on in the previous one (though they may know immediately if you're followed), then you have to establish for everyone in that one that you're being harassed. Note that this is pure speculation, as we have shit for trains here, and l rarely ride them.

People are generally more respectful here, yes, but the number of mentally ill is very, very high. lt's a rare bus trip that there isn't *someone* on there fighting aloud with their inner demons, or worse.

Sometimes humiliation is the perfect tool, but sometimes, it can be precisely what sets the crazy off in a BIG way, at which point it can become dangerous. This should be situational, and on a bus, it might work because you're surrounded by people and can get off at any time, provided they don't follow you off at the stop. But they can always get off at the next one, so l would advise caution in such situations.

That said, l want to reiterate that sometimes, laughing at them is exactly how you handle it in order to diffuse the situation.

Good points. Usually the catcalls from cars aren't a big deal, sometimes I even smile and wave although inside I feel really embarrassed because it calls a lot of unwanted attention to me. But I was reading the Hollaback DC site (suggested below), where a 15 year old girl expressed her anger at being followed by guys in a car and I wondered if I should not even do that much. I really don't want to egg on someone way unstable, but it seems that on a busy street, they can't do much but honk a few times and yell, so maybe handling it with humor isn't so bad in that circumstance.

Yeah frekja, i think people are generally suggesting this when the person's trying to disempower/belittle you in public.

Yeah, on a busy street, full of businesses, you can duck into any given one if they double back and if necessary, inform the people who work there what's going on, but usually that's enough for them to lose you or discourage them from following you in and move on.

lt's definitely all about *what* they say, though, as much as how they say it. While l rarely get catcalls l enjoy -though l usually just dismiss them anyway- l was waiting at the bus stop on Aurora (which is a fast moving busy street) and this car flies by, a guy leans out, and he smiles and goes, "Well, look at YOU!", and then they were gone.

Since almost everytime someone says this, it's a compliment, l decided to take it as one and it kind of made my day. Those are few and far between, but they're not *all* bad. Not that l'm saying you were saying that (you weren't), just thought it a fun anecdote. :)

Oh, l understand, BB. l was just sayin. :)

Going by personal experience, looking like shit may decrease the quantity of catcalling/propositioning but not the aggressiveness. I think it can even make the negative reaction to rejection worse, because what right does an ugly woman have to turn down a man?

I didn't think about it that way, but there may be something to this. I'm pretty much the most medium person I know, so maybe it gives people the idea that I'd welcome the attention. I just hate the whole "holler atcha" method of pick ups though... being called out like that on transport and getting nasty looks from other women sucks.

This is a great response.

Wow, those are huge. Would do double duty in winter as earmuffs, too!

You can find ones a bit smaller in nice colors now days if you have 40 bucks or so. I can't wear earbuds and got a snazzy red set no one bugged me on NYC or Philly transit both of which were full of crazies. Also a great deterrent for pan handlers

Nice. I'm actually from DC, but was able to find a site specific to the district, too!

Great, the PNW seems a bit outdated but others are regularly updated. Even if you don't post anyone's face, it's still nice to read the stories from other people venting.

I don't get the thumbs down on this... I think it's great thinking out the box. Don't know if it would work but it's a nice angle.

The heckler isn't going to be afraid of a person who is obviously not around.

It is rarely that simple.

Honey Badger - I suspect that you mistook my succinct answer for one which was not well-considered.

Mixy's question describes a scenario where she is sometimes "embarrassed" and flummoxed by these situations, and that occasionally someone angry "gets up in her face." She does not say that anyone actually makes physical contact or obstructs her.

Now, most of the other answers here have suggested some form of "don't fuck with me" attitude or action. Fine, but to my way of thinking, those options draw mixy into an interaction or further possible conflict with someone who is already guilty of assaulting her.

Potentially escalating a conflict doesn't seem to be a very good way of resolving a conflict, especially since it appears that in these circumstances she does have the option of ignoring the asshole behavior and simply going a different direction.

So no, it may not always be as simple as walking away - if anyone grabs mixy, she may have to bust out the tae kwon do. On the other hand, many things in life are only as complicated as we choose to make them for ourselves. I think that philosophy merits consideration by mixy, and that she should think twice before engaging her energy with those who wish to bother her.

"every time I ride public transport"

There is very little room on a bus or train to just walk away. "Just walk away" is a message akin to telling her to just suck it up, move on. These unwanted comments, according to Mixy, are coming at a near daily rate and in my opinion they amount to an assault on her. Telling her to just walk away is like saying "turn the other cheek", this does nothing but perpetuate the unwanted behavior and I don't see it as helpful.

Mixy is asking for strategies, it sounds like she wants a verbal or behavioral arsenal to draw from when her space (physical or emotional) is invaded. You can only retreat so far before you lose the war.

I'll take my own advice and step away before you dole out another thumbs down for my reasonable explanation and strategy. You have convinced me that a "verbal or behavioral arsenal" is definitely the best solution. You win!

Mister Fusspot you earned that thumbs down on your own, it didn't come from me.

l tend to agree with the mister. We have to consider the possibility of an escalating conflict on a bus full of other people. What if a weapon were present? What if doing anything other than simply switching seats prompts them to decide to use that weapon? l think we've seen enough stories about conflicts on planes getting out of hand to appreciate how badly it could go on a bus. Just because the driver has the option to stop the bus and call the cops doesn't mean that evacuating a bus of the passengers is going to go smoothly, nor is ridding the bus of the one offender. Mister's point -and Metro's aim- is to minimize danger, injury, and escalation, and while Mixy having some defense training certainly improves the odds of not being personally injured, that's not going to cover the men, women, and children (again, children) who might be physically compromised by the situation.

There are times when fighting back is the way to go. Then there are times when turning the other cheek isn't weak, it's to preserve the safety of others. ln an unpredictable situation, letting the staff and/or more qualified onlookers deal with it is the best move. l don't feel like less of a strong woman by letting others take care of the situation when l'm not in the best position to deal with it. l call that common sense.

This isn't about not fighting back as a woman when inappropriate comments or actions occur. The original question is still about dealing with such things on a bus where she and others might be hurt.

Obviously, on the street, this would change depending on the circumstances.

l'm curious. For whoever thumbed me down -not that l much care, frankly- do you disagree that putting others in danger by fighting back when there's a more practical option is a wise idea? Speak up, oh ye passive-aggressive voter! The masses want to know!

I hear ya, freikja. At this point, the only thumbs I'm interested in are mixy's. She's commented on a few other answers; I'd really like to know whether she found any valuable perspective/support/insight from anything that you or I wrote. Surely we were making best efforts to offer thoughtful guidance.

Well, l think Honeybadger finally made her perspective far clearer, and this helped my understanding of what she was saying. When you're talking arsenals, it's kind of hard not to think of war in general, so l was a bit confused.

But l think Mixy seems to have a head on her shoulders, so l'm not too worried about what she finally does, though l suspect she -like any other city dweller in which a train and camera (but not necessarily a driver) are present- will take into account those around her. lf we're talking a situation where the driver of a train isn't present and she has to defend herself physically, l hope humanity or chivalry (which l don't believe is dead) will intervene and prevent harm on all sides.

And to her credit, this is where Honeybadger's original point comes in - it's rarely that simple. The question is, will people intervene when it is clear they need to?

Hi all, this exchanged raised good points that I wasn't clear about in my initial question-- namely, that strategies for avoiding conflict in the street might prove less useful on public transport. Of course on the street I'm not going to stop every time I hear someone yell at me, but by "up in my face" I meant that people do at times obstruct my path and demand to know why I'm being a bitch and playing them that way. I think it's better to keep moving in this circumstance than escalate. But on the metro, I feel like I can't get away, and often other patrons stare at the situation as if they're trying to figure out what to do themselves. I sometimes feel that I have a target on my forehead that incites certain types of guys to mess with me and I'm bad with snappy comebacks. So yes, my intention was to gather an arsenal of verbal/ behavioral tricks to use when this stuff happens, or, even better, to prevent it from happening. I thank all of you for helping me with this!

Thanks for the reply and clarifications; glad you found some help at Q-land. Good luck and stay safe... sorry you're being hassled. That's BS.