Building a strong relationship with a therapist can help you transition out of the shitty one you're in. You won't be alone, and with a good counselor, you can learn healthier patterns than the ones you've been living with. One juicy, deep relationship with another person can give you so much more life.

Wow! Lot's of good advise. I'd emphasize the point of taking a full year, during which he should be in individual and group abuser treatment, 12 Step (three times/week, with a sponsor) and individual therapy. His whole family/friend system should be involved and he should be working the steps fully with everyone. You sound very wound up in this guy, so go to Al-anon, a look at abuse in your childhood -- it's likely.

If he's still going to parent your child to any significant degree (more than a meal once in awhile), I WOULD recommend family counseling, not necessarily with a eye to reuniting, but in order to reduce the conflict, lessen the shock of the separation and maximize quality parenting. Family and couples counseling will enable at least one professional to observe the whole system in action and this person should be able to advise you better than anyone else. It's very tough for an auto mechanic to repair a car one part at a time. A family system is much more complex.

The advice already given here is all really awesome, so I don't know if I have much to add, but I was very much impressed with this website.

http://helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_help_treatment_prevention.htm

Namaste.

Dear Seeking a Considered Life,

I applaud you for seeking a considered life because living with an abuser can be a death of the soul. I can't tell you how to choose but I can offer two things: 1. To encourage you to seek safety for yourself and your son and 2. Offer you what I know from a clinical perspective.

Abuse is characterized by a persistent pattern. The perpetrator offends, seeks forgiveness from who they abuse and then returns to the same abusive behavior. The survivor gets caught in wanting to believe that things can be "different" and waits for the offender to change. Change has to come from within you. This likely means creating boundaries that support activating your self care system.

It is not uncommon that you would still feel love for your husband. Despite your husband having an abusive part (which likely stems form his own past of being mistreated) he likely has a very loveable part. This is where survivors' boundaries get exploited. Often survivors have compassion for the wounded part of their abuser. This compassion for him may supercede your compassion for yourself who deserves a healthy love.

The fact that you are both in therapy is imperative. Change of long-held patterns takes a significant amount of time. Rather than wondering if he will change, a more promising route may me to focus on how you can change and grow so that no aspects of abuse is permitted in any of your relationships.

Couples therapy is never recommended for relationships with current or recent abuse. The work has to be at the individual level so that each person is working to heal the wounded parts of themselves. There is no accurate forecast to determine if an abusive relationship can heal. The new marriage, of sorts, needs to be an ultimate dedication to emotional health. Additionally, folks in recovery are encouraged to not be in relationship for at least one year so they may focus on ownership of behavior and to learn not to resort to blaming others... a major characteristic of abusers.

I would encourage you to continue in your therapy and define what safety means and feels like for you and your son so that you and your child have an opportunity to break the cycle. For extra support on Domestic Violence check out New Beginnings @ http://www.newbegin.org/

Stay brave and stay safe!

Warmly,

Liz

Hi there,

Wow. You have so much change going on right now. And it sounds like the questions are feeling so intense, with so much hope and pain and all the years of experience behind you.

It sounds to me like you see your husband with a lot of love and empathy. I don't know how abusive he has been, or what the impact of that abuse has been on you and your son.

I wonder if you've had a chance to heal yet from the abuse you've been through. Or if your husband's feelings and needs have occupied a lot of your space and your attention.

I think couples' counseling might be too soon right now--as you say, he's only been sober for 11 weeks. And you're in your new apartment, working on getting out of codependence, which means making a new kind of space for yourself in your life.

One signpost to look for--in yourself, as well as in him--might be whether you can grieve for the abuse that has already happened, and its impacts on you, your son, and your relationship. For you, I can only guess about this, not knowing you, but a signpost might be your ability to really empathize with yourself, to feel anger on your own behalf, to feel that you matter very much.

In him, a signpost might be his ability to really accept responsibility for his actions, and for his own wellbeing. And to stay sober over time.

After grieving the losses you have actually sustained, maybe then it would become clearer to you whether marriage with your husband would be possible, or what you'd want. At that point, couples therapy could be helpful to clarify things or help the two of you improve your relationship as parents and as people, whether or not you stay married.

Of course, I don't know you, so I might be mistaken about the question of couples counseling now versus later--but these are my thoughts, based on what I read in your question. Your own therapist might be able to offer a more informed opinion.

I wish you and your family peace and healing.

best,

Carol

I think you're asking all the right questions. I can only imagine how hard it must be to have to

You should read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse

You are currently in #3.

And as a boy that was raised in an abusive household I can tell you that it fucked me up a LOT more than having a single mom did. If you care about your child more than you care about yourself, you should not be in that household. Your child will grow up thinking that is how HE should act - do you want that?

Children model their adult relationships based on what they learn as a child. Show him how a strong woman stands up for herself and does not tolerate a relationship with an abusive man - he WILL NOT CHANGE - and you will be doing your child a lifetimes favor.

I rarely make contributions on these kind of questions. I suspect there may be posts indicating how you should 'cut your losses, grieve and move on', as you state. Yet, you have a son and an investment in this person which appears to have value to you.

Pursuing therapy individually and together is always a positive prospect.
You should certainly continue to work on having your own life and experiences that make you proud of your own skills, accomplishments, friends, and goals. Anyone that truly loves you would want you to have that also. You don't give up moving forward in your life for someone else - you might share it with him someday, but you stay on course. The same goes for him.

My only words of wisdom are in making any decisions about being together again. Make only commitments that respect you both and your individual needs for separateness and growth. If something is a good idea today (like, say, moving back together) then it will also be a good idea six months or a year or more from now - there is no rush. Please keep that in mind.

Raise your son together even though you may be living apart. You are building the memories right now that he will live with his whole life. Think back on your own life and try to remember the particulars of early life - right now are the memories that will be burned deepest in his experience. Psychological help for him also may be of real benefit in understanding the stresses all are experiencing. Perhaps now or later, providing him with a male role model/mentor may be of real value (Big Brothers, or something similar).

Substance abuse is not something that is conquered quickly or in finality, it is a constant struggle. You will live with your relationship history, it will not erase. The task is to build a new future, however it will look. It won't be successfully patterned on the life you had before.

Be well, my wish for all of you.

Have you seen Fnarf's response to a similar question a few days ago? He hit the nail on the head.

Addiction (and drinking) are not problems that go away overnight. If I were in your shoes, I would give him a year of sobriety (and distance) AT LEAST before considering any joint counselling or entering into any discussions about the future of the relationship. You need to protect yourself and your kid first, however hard that is.

And finally, there are good, kind men in this world who do not drink and who do not abuse their partners. You deserve better. You deserve to be with someone who loves you -- and themselves -- enough to treat you with love, honor, and respect.

Good luck.

Please, do not get back together without couples therapy. And even though 11 weeks seems like a long time,it's not.

From the sound of it, it sounds like alcohol is a big part of the problem. Is he in the program? Have you checked out Alanon?

Give yourself plenty of time.

Good luck

Allena

Hi monasconfidante,

I love your question! because there are so many different angles in it. It seems like you're wondering
1) whether you love him enough to want to stay together even if he's never going to be as considerate as you are
2) whether there's a way to get more satisfaction for you out of this relationship 3) whether it's OK to settle for a guy who doesn't seem to be in your league, and 4) whether it's fair to him to stay with him for now, if he's not The One for you.

It sounds like you've been trying to get him to be more considerate, but you wish he would initiate more thoughtfulness without you having to be the one who tells him what you want all the time. That sounds frustrating!

I think that it all depends on how you feel about him. No one is perfect; there's nothing wrong with being in love with a human being who's a little selfish. I think it's natural from time to time to compare ourselves and our relationships to ideals, including the ideal of The Healthy Relationship (or the Cool Relationship etc. etc.). But in a good relationship, there's a basic feeling that good enough is really good enough--it's a sense that, yeah, I like being with him, warts and all.

If you really don't feel that way about him then I can see it might not be fair to either of you to keep your doubts to yourself. Talking about it might even help. If you do really like him, then I don't think it's unfair at all to keep seeing him and keep talking to him about what you want.

Hi,

My heart goes out to you--and my respect, too. It's not easy to do what you've had to do, surviving your husband's abusiveness, finding ways to set limits with him, and also loving him.

I don't know the answer to your question. I do know, though, that it takes a lot more then reading a self-help book for a partner who's abusive to really change. If your husband is interested in changing, he should get the help of a therapist who's very experienced in working with men who abuse their partners. (The agency Wellspring Family Services is one that offers counseling and programs for this issue.) It is possible for someone who's abusive to change, but it takes a lot of courage and commitment on his part. No one can do that work for him, and it takes time, maybe years. The same emotional vulnerabilities that make it possible for anyone to act out abusively toward people they love in the first place, make it very very difficult for them to own their actions, empathize, and really take responsibility.

It's also very common, as I'm sure you know, for an abusing partner to say anything they think will keep you with them. So there's a danger of falling into the trap of accepting reassurances that turn out to be false. (The issue isn't necessarily about lying; it's about his being emotionally integrated, or not. The desperate person who wants to be loved and doesn't want to be abandoned may not be integrated with the narcissistically wounded person who feels shame and acts it out as rage and abuse--even though they're actually the same man.) I don't think he can assure you that he won't abuse you or your kids again until he can really own that he has abused you in the past.

I think it's so important that you're so aware his behavior has been hurtful to you and your kids, and that you've got good support for your recovery. I hope and trust that the answer to your question will become clearer to you as you are good to yourself and take things one day at a time.

with warm wishes,

Carol

I've been in your situation in most of my relationships, too. I usually put up with it for quite a while, but eventually I get to a breaking point and initiate dumping procedures.

My advice: Find someone that you feel is sensitive and considerate, somebody who is there for you. Those are reasonable things to desire, and there are plenty of guys out there that would fit the bill.

On the flip side, consider what role you have played in this. Going forward, you need to make your needs clear from the onset of a relationship. Selfishness should be a dealbreaker for you; there is no need to wonder if it is fair for them.

I heard this recently and it really stuck with me: "The best kind of relationships are where both parties think that the other person is too good for them."

If this is bothering you now, it will really bother you later. It is really difficult to change someone.

I was in the reverse of this situation- I am the guy and she was the one who was insensitive in small ways that kept adding up to something big.

The only time it is ok to settle is if you can honestly say it will not get to you in the future - that it will not build up to the point that YOU starting treating him badly or you get so upset that you start to resent him or hate him.

Chances are, that will happen. When one partner gives more than they get in return, there starts to be resentment and imbalance. This is healthy and normal - you are being taken advantage of. No matter how much you might try to fight it or ignore it you won't be able to change how you feel.

But maybe he makes up for it in other ways, maybe its not that big of a deal for you. That is the only way it is okay for you to settle.

Be honest with yourself: will this eventually turn into an unhealthy situation because of how he treats you?

If so, then it is not right to settle - because ultimately you will only be harming him and yourself more by doing so. Because you will get deeply involved - married, kids, living together, etc. - and THEN realize how miserable you are.

Better to understand that now and go back into the dating world - rather than settle now and find yourself there in five years.

Even simpler than everyone else:

Get out of there for your own sanity and safety.

I'm a little concerned about exactly how he's kind of selfish. I put much less value on the nice birthdays/compliments/spontaneous things that was mentioned by another commentator, but you also put on your list that you "put him first", "listen well", and "give great advice."

If my partner didn't listen well and wasn't there for me, I wouldn't consider him a partner at all. Between my boyfriend and me, we don't have to take the other's problems to heart, but we make the effort to take it seriously, just to recognize that a person's feelings are at stake. Which is pretty much all it takes.

What is constituting "insensitive and inconsiderate" behaviour?

For some people therapy is helpful because it provide a safe space to talk and process life events. However some people might benefit more from going for a jog, playing the guitar, praying/meditating, painting, writing poetry, or learning about resources in their community.

When you have faced difficult choices in your past what has been helpful to you?

A girlfriend that's out of his league but still loves him? To me, as a guy, that's the ideal long-term relationship situation to be in. And if he feels the same (both that you're out of his league AND that that's ideal), then I think it's more than fair; it's downright lucky.

From your end though, I think you need to decide what you value from him in the relationship (and how much you value it) and weigh it against the things you feel you're compromising on. You don't mention much in favor of the relationship other than he's "reasonably receptive" and you'd rather be with him than be single; that doesn't present much of an argument as to why you love him. The only thing that would be unfair to him is if someone else would value his contribution to the relationship more than you.

Otherwise, on whether to settle: it's just a matter of your confidence level in finding someone that will make you happier than he can.

It sounds like your need for support, closeness, and consideration are not being met currently in your relationship.
So now you have some options.
1) Try to make it work (Communicate your needs, give less so he can give more, and learn to respect your partner)
2) Stay together while scouting for a replacement.
3) Face the loneliness of single-hood.

Please note: It is important to take an inventory of all of your values when making you decision. For example, if one value's independence option 3 might be their best choice, while a person who values security might choose 1 or 2.

Try not let being single have a bad wrap.

I've spent most of my young adulthood being single. At age 26 I decided to take the leap with someone, last time I dated someone I was in my teens.

Being in a relationship is nice but there are times I miss being the only person in my life.

Listen to the tone of voice when talking about him - everything you say starts to sound like I'm annoying? Stop dismantling every problem when it comes through the door and treat him as you would if you have just met. You may find that his feelings have changed for you since you changed - see if you can restore the woman he fell in love with the old feelings come flooding back.

I think it's more a question of whether it is fair to you.

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a lady and most of my friends are ladies, but this seems like an incredibly common refrain (from my friends, from my mom and her friends). Massive generalization, but it seems like women get more invested in relationships. I know some people will disagree with me, but women are socialized from a young age to put others in front of themself, to be considerate and thoughtful and giving. It's not that there aren't kind caring guys out there, but on average, they don't seem to be as good with compliments/birthdays/doing nice spontaneous things.

If you've told him how you feel and he is making genuine efforts to make you happy, he may be worth it. But it sounds like you're kind of over him and just sticking around because it's comfortable. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with this guy?

I know it's hard to turn your back on the last 7 years, and presumably you didn't get married to get divorced. That said, the advice given in the other posts here is right on the money.

You've been doing a great job of strengthening yourself and protecting your children. As long as he is with you, he won't have a reason to change his behaviors or take responsibility for his life.

I've worked with couples in your situation. On average, the wife leaves four times before she leaves for good. The husband, often a good man when he's not drinking or abusive, stops working on himself when he moves back home. The kindest thing you can do for him is to hold to the boundaries you have created for him and yourself.

Your children need a strong mom and from your post, it looks like they have one. Hold your position regardless of what he says. It is possible for him to change, but that change takes time--two year at the minimum. The yardstick for change is a "yes" answer to these two questions:

1. Do I have a problem?
2. Do I take responsibility for everything I think, feel, say, and do? (Instead of blaming other people or circumstances.)

How does he measure up on that yardstick?

Good luck, hillsafar. Stay strong.

Wendy

Hi Meri,

When we get stress heaped upon stress, the emotional resiliency that is present in good relationships can stretch a little thin.

I'm impressed by the fact that, even with what you're going through, you still have enough insight to know that you want to ask for your needs without sounding accusatory.

Something that works well during these times is to make sure you're each speaking the others "love language" (as identified in the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman.) Briefly stated, the five ways we give and receive love are: touch, service, quality time, gifts, and words. If he is showing you love by taking care of your needs and you are looking to receive love by having a snuggle, you're both not feeling the connection.

If you can each discuss your preferred way of giving and receiving love and then be aware when your partner shows you love in their way, it goes a long way to getting that loving feeling back.

That feeling is magnified if you both start showing love to the other in their preferred way to receive it.

Every relationship goes through these times and through honest communication where each person takes responsibility for what they feel and doesn't count on the other to take away the pain and hurt they always come out on the other side stronger and closer to each other.

Here's hoping that your pain and loss will soon be replaced with joy and closeness.

Wendy

This is a great question--one that could have several answers. If you go to therapy just because you've been advised to do so and it's just a stop you're making on the way to the divorce attorney's office, I'd probably save yourself some time and money and skip that step.

If you feel there's hope for your marriage, it may pay to find a good couple's therapist--one that's been around the block many times and has skill with grumpy, unpleasant people--dig in and give it your best shot. The results are often surprising especially if your husband can come to the realization that he has a problem and is willing to take responsibility for everything he says, does, feels and thinks.

If you decide divorce is the right answer, individual counseling can give you the help and support you need to uncouple, help your children through their own trauma of Mom and Dad splitting up, and help you break the patterns that brought you into a relationship with this kind of guy.

Sounds like you're in a tough spot and I wish you all the best.

Divorce. The cycle of abuse is running rampant here. He is currently in the "I'll get better!" phase. It will pass. It will ALWAYS pass and come back to the abuse phase.

Blahblah,

I find that people cannot always articulate precisely why they are coming in for therapy. It sounds to me like you have a foothold on why... mainly that you are deeply contemplating seperation yet with someone suggesting therapy, you appear to be considering your options for how to proceed. (Do you have a sense of why this person suggested therapy for you?)

Some people can benefit from a few therapy sessions while others use it on a more long term basis. Goals tend to change and crystalize through time. I hear that your immediate goal is to render a decision. Additionally, I would also suggest that you talk with someone about how you have felt mistreated and verbally abused. It may help to talk with a professional about the cycle of abuse and identify if this matches your current situation. You may also consider how this has impacted you and the kids and how to talk with them in a concrete age-appropriate manner about the changes in their family and the emotions they may be eperiencing. Processing in this way but allow you to be more definitive about the direction of your marriage.

I wish you well in this hard process!

Liz

Meri,

You have been through a lot in the past month. In fact, job loss, moving and death are amongst the top five stressors a person can go through. To go through them all at once is certain to make you sad and require time to get grounded again.

I find that men or partners often don't know how to meet the grief and sadness of their partners not because they don't care but, rather, just the opposite. Your partner likely wants to comfort you but, perhaps, feels as if he doesn't know how to. Sometimes, too, men want to protect their partner from life's hurts or find a solution. In this case, maybe your partner feels what he has to offer may not be enough. This is where you come in.

I would suggest inviting him into your process by letting him know your current feelings and then focusing on ways that you appreciate him. Rather than focusing on what he is not doing to meet your needs, focus on everything he does that feels good to you even if it feels simple and trite. I believe partners are encouraged when they hear positive feedback that they are behaving in satisfying ways. So... if he gives you a nice squeeze or looks at you warmly, tell him how good that feels. He will be encouraged to do more of the same! (Remember Pavlov and the dog? Same principles operating here.)

I wish you healing and finding new ways to connect with your partner.

Liz

Hi Meri,

Wow, that is a hard month! I'm glad you're being good to yourself. I agree that it's natural to feel sad and overwhelmed for a while after a loss--and some comforting closeness in your relationship would feel really good right now. That makes sense.

So why don't losses make couples fall into each other's consoling arms? Often, what happens instead is that each partner feels the difficulty in his or her own way. One wants to cuddle while the other wants escapist fun. One feels OK about being sad, while the other feels deeply nervous or even painfully inadequate when they see their partner feeling depressed. It can help to try to empathize with each other, to try to understand that the same situation can look so differently to each of you.

There might be a gender angle to consider here, too. In our culture, women are typically more at ease with emotions like sadness than men are. Your guy might not see how cuddling could help you feel less depressed. It might help if you tell him directly that you are working on feeling better and you want him to help you by holding you.

I wonder whether you and he have gone through anything like this before together. If so, how did you reconnect then?

If this is the first time that you've gone through a hard time together, then--not to be Pollyanna--but at the very least, you will get to know each other better through this.

I hope this helps! with many good wishes for you,

Carol

Obviously I don't know your personality or anything, but here are some possible advantages to seeing a therapist in your situation:

--The right therapist for you will probably have met other people in your position before, and can tell you about common patterns you might be falling into (good or bad) or approaches you can take from here.

--A therapist isn't your sister who always hated your husband or your friend who thinks you should give him another chance, but rather a third party who can see your situation totally from the outside.

--A therapist gives you a regular outlet for all your frustration or confusion. You can hold it in around your kids, unleash it with a professional, and hopefully come out of each session with your head back on straight. This could be especially helpful if you do separate, because you'll (presumably) be in a brand new situation, and one that can be complicated and stressful.

--If you have a pattern of getting into relationships like this, a therapist can help you identify why you're doing it and change your thoughts and behaviors.

Oh, and feel free to shop around if the first person you visit seems like he/she doesn't really "get" your situation or thought process or doesn't seem to have any idea where to go from here. Better to see someone else than to get totally turned off of something that could help you.

P.S. Mods, are there bullet points somewhere that I'm missing? I could use some.