Ask Seattle A Question
Questions are no longer being accepted in this category. You can read previous questions and answers below.
Music Panel
Category_default

Ask members of the local music community questions about everything you need to know about the music industry--from booking a show to signing a record contract. Panelists include Eli Anderson of the Crocodile, Michelle Smith of the Comet, Nick Heliotis of Hardly Art Records, Ben London of the Recording Academy, Vincent G...

Answers
  • Music Schools (high school and above) in Seattle: who rocks?
    Memstad2011_copy_small

    Garfield High School has three full-time music teachers. Their jazz band regularly wins national honors and recently won the Essentially Ellington Jazz Competition.

  • remembering The Rocket , once a Seattle fav for musicians- what's your go-to publication or website for leading edge music now?
    Ben_phone_small

    The Stranger, Seattle Weekly, KEXP, KEXP Website, Three Imaginary Girls, Facebook, City Arts Mag, Too Beautiful to Live Podcast.

  • Are the rules any different for bands seeking boring, regular work as background music vs. sit-down concerts?
    Avatar_default

    Most restaurants want wallpaper, but are unable/unwilling to articulate that desire. In general, musicians in restaurants are hired to provide the appearance of "class" and "culture" while providing music at a level designed only to prevent any awkward silences in conversation. Have a listen to the level that the piped-in music is playing at when there are no musicians--that's the preferred level.

    When you're trying to get booked, emphasize your "venue-appropriate volume" early and often. If you get booked, make sure that any monitoring system you bring is completely independent of the audience-facing amplification so that you can hear yourself over the surprisingly loud audience conversations without interrupting them. No restaurant manager has ever gone over to the band during the evening and said "Hey! Can you guys turn it up a bit?!!"

  • Do We Need Publishers? Convince Me.
    Jakeshowbox_small

    I think the answer really is that it depends. Some artists are people who really have their act together in every way. The new digital tools do seem to make it theoretically possible for these kind of people to really DIY just about everything.

    And at the start, a lot of folks may have no choice but to try and DIY the whole thing.

    But if things start going well at all, it become increasingly difficult to do this. It's also hard to be an expert in everything. And it's also sometimes easier for a third party to pitch your music to other people. They can say things about you for the good that seem to have more credibility than if they came from you directly. They may also have contacts you don't have, etc.

    Also, when a third party agrees to take on your music, it can send the message that at least one person or group other than the musician him or herself thought the music had enough value that it was worth getting behind. It's kind of like a testimonial.

    So I don't know if musicians still need "Publishers." Indeed, names and work responsibilities definitely seem to be changing in the 21st century music industry.

    But whatever names get used, most musicians still need the help of a skilled team. I don't think that's going to change.

Questions
Recent Comments
  • Comment on sallymae's answer…
    203250_667692432_2264873_n_small

    Are you by chance still looking for local acts to help?

  • Comment on Jake London's answer…
    Jakeshowbox_small

    Great comment chrisrnps. This is what I mean about learning to get it dialed in and simplified all at once.

  • Comment on Ben London's answer…
    Photo_on_2012-01-03_at_17

    What about Cornish?

  • Comment on Ben London's answer…
    Sacri_ordines_by_charism_small

    good list. 3 imaginary girls = FTW

  • Comment on Cody Creel's answer…
    Avatar_default

    Thanks Cody.

    We have always had our presets at consistent levels and have made minor tweaks along the way. I always write out exactly what we need with a stage layout. We bring our own di's. I do what I can to make it as easy as possible on the soundguy.

    I think I am going to give this stereo mix thing a try. Having control onstage of the levels is probably the best way for us to have more consistent levels. Whether I will bring on stage amps or not will depend on the logistics...but I think it's a good idea.

    It's hard not to get a bit aggravated when a soundguy looks at your input list and immediately starts giving you the attitude. I can usually settle things down eventually after they realize we have our shit together.

  • Comment on Eric Grandy's answer…
    Emp2_small

    "NEED" meaning "The Stranger NEEDS to write about MY SHITTY LOCAL BAND", of course. Right, TSMDS?

    "Readers" want to read what they want to read. Print and online publications are competing for eyeballs, which translate into ad space, which translates into being able to eat, just like your and my shitty local bands are competing for ear-holes.

    I'm in one of those bands whose name has only ever appeared in The Stranger in their annual "we'll list every band who fills in a web form" issue (OK, and the concert calendar listings), but if it covered every local band that felt entitled to a write-up, it would be unreadable.

    Pro Tip: If you read The Stranger and Line Out, it's pretty easy to tell what local music blogs the writers read. Try to get covered in those to get on the proverbial radar.

    and also please to be asking yourself what does it mean about coming across with that attitude and lack of non-headache-inducing sentence structure and capitalization and screen name and sense of entitlement if you're trying to make an impression on someone you hope will write about your band?

  • Comment on Jake London's answer…
    Emp2_small

    For the three synths and electronic drum pads I'd suggest that you DO give them a stereo mix of everything (with your own 2 DIs) and politely ask that they use both DI channels @ equal volume even if they're not running in stereo (many clubs aren't, and it can often be counterproductive for the 90% of the audience that isn't standing in the exact center). Politely shrugging and say "that's cool, man - even if you're not running in stereo, we like having the extra headroom and a safety in case one channel cuts out" has worked for me in the past with the soundman visibly perking up when you "speak their language". Coming across as humble / easygoing / ever-so-slightly apologetic about your needs, while knowing what you're talking about (as opposed to "acting like you think you know more than the soundman", which even when true, is a surefire way to ensure an evening of "audio retribution" in your monitor mix later) works wonders. Don't be fake, but if the impression the sound guy has of your band is "what a bunch of nice, earnest guys", there's a fair-to-middling chance your mix will get a little extra love and attention that night.

    With the electronic drums and synths, the relative volumes of those are something that you'd probably want to be consistent from night-to-night, with the 'mix' pre-programmed into the actual presets of the synths and electronic kit. They aren't going to be as beholden to the acoustics of different venues as much as something like a guitar rig (where you might have to use different tone-knob settings in different venues, or decide to forego the reverb in a boomy-sounding venue) or an acoustic drum set.

    Synths and electronic drums -> your mixer -> main L/R outs of mixer -> your two DIs ->

    -> XLR outs of DIs go the the venue's snake

    -> 1/4" 'thru' outs of DIs go to two not-underpowered 15"-and-tweets keyboard amps - maybe even put these higher up on tripod speaker stands like "sidefills", or tilted back so they're not shooting at your knees.

    Not entirely unlike a traditional guitar/bass/drums band - which is the easiest for a sound guy to mix when their relative amp stage volumes are based on the acoustic stage volume of the drum kit - set the volume on the pair of keyboard amps relative to the stage volume the guitarist uses for his/her amp so that it already sounds like "a mix" onstage / in your practice space before you even add the house PA / stage monitors into the equation.

    Then all the sound human has to do is get the relative levels of the pre-mixed "electronics", the one miked guitar cab, and the vocal mics in the ballpark, and you're more or less golden.

    That way you'd only be depending on the house sound dude for making sure you can hear the vocals in the house monitor wedges, and balancing the electronics/guitar/vocals in the FOH mix - and with only 2 DI inputs (with your own DIs) and four mic inputs, you could play pretty much anywhere with a lot less hassle.

    Just a thought. You might have to upsize to a station wagon though. ;-)

  • Comment on Eli Anderson's answer…
    Emp2_small

    Phil, based on the equipment list on the Croc's site, the final D/A conversion happens inside the D&B Audiotechnik power amps used for FOH, which have both digital and analog inputs.

    That particular Yamaha digital board is pretty stinkin' badass, too. As are those EAW wedges and QSC amps for the monitor setup.

    I have to admit I haven't been since the relaunch of the Croc, but that's arguably the most high-end system in a venue of its size in town.

  • Comment on Nicolas Heliotis's answer…
    Righteous_small

    As a thought experiment -- would you feel the same way about this if we were talking about easily reproduce-able works of physical art? Sculpture made from casts, or prints?

    Now, if a person had the tools necessary to re-cast a sculptor's work's would you be okay with them doing that?

    My point here is that when we talk about music / recordings we are not just talking about "information", we are talking about art. I think you are gaining a lot of mileage in your arguments via that terminology and I don't think it is totally accurate.

    (sorry, I am a bit rushed here but wanted to throw that out there; hopefully it is at least mostly clear)

  • Comment on Rev.Enant's answer…
    Bike-scope_small

    Alpha is teh sux.

    Where are you putting split records (i.e. a Los Crudos/Spitboy LP)?

    Some records deserve to sit side-by-side, like ones by Sonic Youth and Lydia Lunch. I'm not going to separate those with a bunch of unrelated records.

  • Comment on Fnarf's answer…
    Gold-head_small

    That's the best part! That creepy old guy wandering around his unlit, collapsing basement full of moldy old 78s? That could be me!

  • Comment on Fnarf's answer…
    Bike-scope_small

    Vinyl is one of my favorite movies, although it was a bit disturbing to watch since it hit too close to home.

  • Comment on Lee's answer…
    1047307219_096985d990_small

    THANKS! That's a big help.

  • Comment on Vincent Gates's answer…
    Sacri_ordines_by_charism_small

    thumbs up!
    yes indeed I would consider leading edge to = 'new / fresh creative approaches' or even fresh new creative PEOPLE. aka The Front Lines of Originality

  • Comment on Vincent Gates's answer…
    N1130388494_7929_small

    Oops....I too, was trying to charm with the reference to a 10 foot poostick.
    Sometimes it just doesn't translate on the computer screen.

    Sounds like you have some good ideas for playing the room during dinner.
    I hope to hear what you're working on sometime.

  • Comment on so-so's answer…
    Goonies_small

    By release date. It's not that big of a deal for my records, as I only have 2 greatest hits albums. (I'm not really a fan of them on vinyl, though I have a few on CD) Perhaps if I ended up with a ton of them I would have to do something else.

    But I like my system, no one is perfect but this is the one I keep going back to. I like viewing the recordings as a drawn out conversation about music and who was influenced by who. If stuff has been re-released it tends to be remastered, and I like considering what was being done at that point in time, technologically, to improve already existing recordings. It's the idea of that particular music at the time that it was released.

  • Comment on so-so's answer…
    Ozomahtli_small

    But, by release date? Or by the earliest song or latest song on the collection?

    As an example, I have James Brown's Star Time. It's a 4-disc set, and the songs were individually released between 1956 and 1984. Where would you put that?

  • Comment on so-so's answer…
    Goonies_small

    still chrono...because artist's "greatest hits" change over time.

  • Comment on Jake London's answer…
    Jakeshowbox_small

    Try to have patience and persevere. These things take time, but if you keep working at it, little by little stuff will open up. I think this blog post by Seth Godin is a great summary of this stuff: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2006/05/barry_bonds.html

  • Comment on so-so's answer…
    Ozomahtli_small

    What do you do with "greatest hits"?

  • Comment on Jake London's answer…
    2670330_small

    That makes sense. Even if it's still kind of frustrating, I understand.

    On top of the issue previously stated, it'd be nice if other bands were as into networking as I'm trying to be to get this going.

  • Comment on Ryan Sprute's answer…
    1047307219_096985d990_small

    Agree about both the groove thing and the taste thing. But that is still a hard thing to find... and SO MANY bands are getting popular with neither one of those things.

  • Comment on Funhouse Seattle's answer…
    1047307219_096985d990_small

    It's not about specific bands or my specific tastes. I personally find a lot of the local metal, for instance, to be kind of dull. Same with punk. Problem is that I know it's out there, and I know that even if a band is doing something really good/cool that they aren't getting a lot of help except from your club, the comet, and then house parties and all ages stuff on the east side. It has always seemed since the KEXP deal went down years ago that there's been a decline in representing the edgy side of musicmaking... even if it's hard techno or something. The question isn't really about pushing my personal tastes, as much as it probably comes off that way. It's about wondering why we don't see much radio support for harder music.

    Your answer echos most that I've recieved from people in the business, which is "Do what I did, and create the market yourself." but that doesn't get to the issue of how, in my opinion, a station selling itself as representing the Seattle independent scene only represents a very mellow and approachable side of it. It seems that those who are adventuring in music might be willing to have their eyes widened a little farther. You are doing that with your show, and that's great. But it seems disingenuous to relegate all the punk/hip-hop (and let's be real "angsty young people music" to a couple shows and call those bases covered.

    So I guess in the end it is really about representing my tastes, but in a way that intermingles it instead of isolating it. In a way that represents the spectrum of what is being made, and not just the spectrum of what the donor base is most comfortable hearing during business hours.

    It's a fucking pipe dream, but it's something my friends and I would like to see more of, instead of the current setup.

    So! Moving on... my thought returns to tales from older punkers growing up in the 70s and 80s who loved the shit out of AM radio because it was all they got and it played less marketable music. I wonder if it would be possible to create a NEW seattle independent station and do it on AM?? Now that would be awesome and it's also a pretty damn good question.

  • Comment on Eli Anderson's answer…
    19935_1356427632297_1279665754_31062870_5389239_n_small

    The idea that there is "zero accountability" is really bogus.

    It's fair to say that its lose-lose. People complain about how it is now and people would complain about it if a listed time wasn't actually the time a band played.

    And it's not just a small-club issue. You can't call key arena and be guaranteed that Michael Buble will go on at 9. There's an element of guesswork and there always will be. Trying to set that in stone doesn't put a stop to that.

  • Comment on Ben London's answer…
    Jakeshowbox_small

    Beat me to the punch with a lot of this, Ben, and added some other great thoughts. Excellent post.

    Ultimately, if you don't know already who the people are that can help you, you probably need to be out and about more in the community figuring that stuff out for yourself, because my answer to that question of who a good person is may be very different than the answer you come to in your own experience.

    I know it's frustrating in a forum like this when you ask for some specific info (give me names...) and you end up getting back generalities. But the reality is that your needs are going to be specific to you. So it is hard to comment on that. In any case, especially at the outset, I'd be wary about working with anybody who isn't a known commodity inside of your community. Do all the stuff above that Ben suggests. But if there aren't some people you know in the community who can also vouch for this person, think twice about working with them, especially if there isn't a clear and easy exit strategy (e.g.,, no long term agreement).

  • Comment on Fnarf's answer…
    Jakeshowbox_small

    Yes, but as the person who asked the question, I can say with some confidence that it's probably not the most interesting use of Web 2.0.

  • Comment on Eli Anderson's answer…
    Avatar_default_small

    We've still yet to hear what liability is created by telling potential customers what time a performance is supposed to begin. Complaints? Of course. When you sell a ticket to an event, then start early, causing on-time customers to miss it, or late, causing customers to stand around waiting, people are likely to complain. I think the preferred solution would be to tighten up your ship, not to just do away with schedules. This issue cannot be unique to musical performances.

    As for "pretty much every show ever is going to fall a little bit behind," I suspect that would not be the case if someone was made accountable for not staying on schedule. Of course things are going to run behind if there's no consequence for failure (or pride in success).

    So Eli, you spoke of obligations and liability, but when asked for details, you didn't provide any. Can you back any of that with anything concrete?

  • Comment on tiktok's answer…
    Swedishchef_small

    "Venue-appropriate volume"... ahhhhh, that's the insider info I needed! Thanks!

  • Comment on Eli Anderson's answer…
    Avatar_default

    It's the inconsistency that's driving us crazy. And I think the people most annoyed are your most frequent customers! A time is already on the ticket but is meaningless. Nobody needs a hardline commitment but just tweeting out if it's a midnight curfew or 2 Am curfew would be helpful.

    STG had an ad for a show in the Stranger today that had the following included: Doors at 7 - curfew at 11. That is great info that isn't specific. Giving us that kind of info online as late as the day of the show would be lovely.

  • Comment on Vincent Gates's answer…
    Swedishchef_small

    Jeez, y'all, I was just trying to be charming. Note to self: take self seriously.

    As a diner, I've often wished that the musicians would ease up a bit both on the volume and the razzle-dazzle so I could focus on the conversation I was having with my dinner companions. As a musician, I'd like to try my hand at enhancing the ambiance rather than drawing everyone's attention away from their dinners. I maintain that this is its own art, and there's no shame (or 'tude) in it.