oops, you're a guy. I'm straight.

So you think I'm coming off too strong, and Keshmeshi thinks I'm not strong/clear enough. I say you two discuss it, work out the answer, and I'll take it and go from there.

I know that page. My therapist is on that list. There's only 1 group there I can both afford and get to, and I keep trying to make it but never do.

PS- My internship ended, and I invited the girl I really like there to hang out after work sometime, but she never answered. She didn't come in on my last day either. She's really awesome, and we definitely had a connection bantering and joking and stuff. It's just painful now not being able to see her at all. But this is what happens to me when I meet a girl I like and hit it off with--she's already taken and/or won't interact with me.

Keshmeshi: You're making a deeply flawed assumption here. Namely, that dating is fair, perfect, and meritocratic. Just because someone has trouble dating or is unable to date does not necessarily mean anything is wrong with them at all; it's at least as likely that the problem lies with the dating system itself.

BD: I'm trying in a couple ways to find other Aspies who have or have dealt with similar issues to mine. I'm working with my therapist now on physical cues. You're right about the mixed bag that a diagnosis is. When I got it, it was a huge relief that gave me new hope I might finally be able to date. In the intervening year, I've since learned how different we few Aspies are from everyone else, and how few non-Aspies even care to learn about Asperger's or how we function differently. Being a minority, you have to either bend to the norms of the majority (extremely difficult in this case) or stay ghettoized within your minority community. It's a shitty choice. I'm told there are women out there who like smart, quirky guys like me, but I sure can't seem to find one.

I haven't looked for Aspie women specifically, but I've now just posted something looking for Aspie women in Seattle. I think I looked on an Aspie dating site a while back, and there just weren't any anywhere near Seattle. The online dating profile I maintain does say that I have Asperger's, with a link to the Wikipedia entry.

My therapist specializes in Asperger's; I looked for that when I went to get a diagnosis. She often notes that my social functioning is much better than many of her clients. I realize therapists are fallible, but I do think years of specialized study and degrees are worth something. I've looked for Aspie support groups, but I have trouble finding anything I can afford and can get to given my being car-free.

I have been attracted to female friends in the past. And I've lost friendships over trying to pursue it. I've also had female friends who were attracted to me when I wasn't attracted to them, and I've mostly lost those friendships too. I've learned that trying to befriend a girl I'm attracted to before trying to date her is a surefire way to fail, so I don't do it anymore. At this point, no, there really isn't overlap between the women I'm attracted to and the women I'm friends with.

If I've been on dates that were clearly disasters, I haven't been aware of it (except the girl years ago who whipped out her cell phone to call another guy, which I don't count as my fault). I think I do pretty well on dates, but then I really never get 2nd ones. And if a girl then won't interact with you, it's pretty hard to get any feedback.

"It's almost impossible for us to tell you anything concrete without knowing you in person."

This is why I made my offer to meet anyone here in person as long as it's in a public place.

"If you want in person advice about your technique with asking women out, get a wingman or wingwoman to take notes."

The problem with that is I don't really have any friends who've had much luck with dating either; they can't figure my situation out any more than I can, and they have their own to worry about.

"I get the feeling you are pursuing impossible women and ending up frustrated over and over again."

Impossible women, I really don't think so. Especially when I see some of the truly ugly, stupid, mean guys some women are with. The rest is true. I vacillate between a state of learned helplessness where I don't bother because all I get is rejections and frustration and can't take the emotional hit, and a state of defiantly trying anyway because I'm an existentialist and don't want to go down without a fight even if I know I'm excluded from the world of dating, love, and sex.

"You're going to have to learn a lot of things most people don't even know are learned skills because they learned them as children - your friends may be in this bind - they see how you behave/present but don't realize you can learn new skills, like how to better read body language, because they can't recall a time when they learned it - also because of this, they don't know how to teach it or that it is even teachable."

Less with my closer friends, but yes, this is absolutely what happens. People judge and don't even try to understand because they don't realize that they learned these skills, or how or when, and they have no idea how one learns or teaches them. I don't know how or where to learn them either, and that's a huge frustration. It's not like I'm unwilling to put in the work. Do you know more about these curricula or teachers? It sounds roughly like what I need.

Thanks.

IdaB:

"We need to teach social skills as much as math, but we don't because there is the expectation that people will just pick up on them. Well a large part of our society, with Asbergers or not, doesn't just pick up on social skills."

YES!!! Abso-fuckin-lutely! Most people learn these without even realizing it, so they don't even know how to learn or teach them, and can't really grasp what it is to be a teen or adult and not have them. I think I may have some of the skills your partner lacks/lacked though. I'm a great conversationalist, able to make small talk (though I don't really like it), and have a massive memory especially for details about women I'm attracted to. My issues may be more physical...I don't know...what I wouldn't give to be a woman or a gay man!

Yay, I got this reopened! I'm going to try and respond to as much of Elle Elle's answer as my brain can handle at once:

"women have wanted to have sex with you but only in the context of a relationship and you weren’t/aren’t interested in that"
This is definitely not the case. I explain below that ideally I want sex within a long term committed relationship, but framed the question as one about sex because that's how Questionland promoted this category and Susie Bright. I have dated a couple women, but I've never had a girlfriend. Certainly the bulk of those I never had sex with.

Face to face feedback from women? This is virtually impossible, as I explain on another answer. I've always had more female than male friends, but they've never been able to help me in this way. I've tried. Same for my two sisters or psychologist aunt. Or the one girl I dated briefly several years ago and am still in touch with. Somehow I suspect the women I need feedback from are the ones who were interested in me but I didn't know it--one of the many missed opportunities I would've taken had I seen them at the time. Also, I've barely dated, so the universe of women I could ask anything of here is really small, mostly outside Seattle, and mostly people I'm not in touch with and don't want to get back in touch with.

I do sometimes feel mutual connectedness or sexual chemistry with women, but they're never available; lesbian, have boyfriends, or have husbands. Take this girl at my internship for example. I'm sure we had/have a connection of some kind and extent, but I have no way to see how far it might go. When I approach women, they either aren't interested or say/pretend they are but are actually leading me on. I get numbers, but when I call or text, the girl ignores me. Why can't I find women to date? I've offered people up to $500 to find me a girl to date. No dice.

Life/relationship coaches- I'm seeing a therapist now, and have seen 14 on and off since 1995. I'm a wage slave right now and doubt I could afford to see a life or relationship coach. Honestly, I also doubt they could help me unless they were really well-versed in Asperger's. I hired a dating coach once, and it was just another frustrating, money-wasting fiasco. She told me to watch Sex and the City and talk to vegetables. Really.

I'm happy to do role-playing and get feedback about others' first impressions of me. It seems like you need a group to accomplish that. If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. There are some Aspie groups around, but so far I haven't found any that 1) I can afford, and 2) I can get to since I choose not to have a car.

What's wrong with a prostitute? I address that below. I have plenty of female friends; that's the problem. I'm always the friend, never the boyfriend. I can't tell you how many times I've been in this situation (http://www.theonion.com/articles/but-if-we-started-dating-it-would-ruin-our-friends,11473/) or how painfully accurate that Onion article is.

Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response.

I hear that there are women out there who like quirky men, but I haven't met any or I might've had a girlfriend at some point in my 34 years.

I'm not aware of groups for learning social skills. That's the whole frustrating problem. I'm willing to put in the work, as I did to overcome passive-aggressiveness and shyness. But there is not place, class, teacher, therapy group for learning social skills as far as I or my last few therapists can tell. What's the book's name and subject?

I love the idea of an arranged hookup. I always wondered whether sex really "changes things", and when I finally had it at 27, I found that it doesn't. Not all women think it does either.

I've been on Love Lab. And Lust Lab. Never had any luck on either. Never met anyone from either.

I suppose others see me as quirky. I never really asked for that.